User:Vorziblix/Egyptian reconstructed pronunciations with issues
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No listed descendants, citations, or foreign transcriptions/no given basis for reconstruction
[edit]- ꜣbw (“cessation”)
- ꜣmm
- ꜣḫw
- ꜣdw
- jꜣbt
- jbt
- jmꜣḫw-ḫr-nṯr-ꜥꜣ
- jmj — both reconstructed terms
- jmn (“western”)
- jzft
- jqr
- jt-nṯrw
- ꜥnn — but the derivation ꜥn does have descendants
- ꜥq
- wꜥtj
- wrr
- wrt
- wḫꜣ
- wsrt
- wdfj
- bꜣẖw
- bꜣgj
- bjtj
- bꜥḥj
- pꜣqj
- pr-nswt
- pr-ḥḏ
- prt-ḫrw
- psḏj
- mꜣwj
- mꜥnḏt
- mnḫt
- mnt
- mnṯw
- mr (“canal”)
- mr (“bull”)
- mẖꜥqt
- mtt
- mdwt nfrt
- mḏrj
- nbt
- nmj
- nswt-bjtj
- nsrt
- nḏs (“small”) — no Coptic descendant exists
- rnpj
- rnpt-ḥsb
- r ntt / r-ntj
- rhn
- r ḥꜣt
- r ḏbꜣ
- ḥꜣbj
- ḥꜥpj
- ḥtpw
- ḥḏ (“to be white”)
- ḫm
- ḫmt-rw
- ḫntj
- ẖrj-nṯr
- zꜣb
- zꜣt
- zfṯ
- zmꜣ
- znj mnt
- zkr
- sjꜣ
- swꜣj
- sn-tꜣ
- sḫꜣj
- sd
- sḏfꜣ
- šꜣꜥ
- špsj
- šrr
- km (“to complete”) — no Coptic descendant exists
- ktt
- qꜣj sꜣ
- gp
- gs-tp
- tꜣ-nṯr
- dšrt
- ḏḥwtt
More parts reconstructed than the evidence warrants
[edit]- ꜣḫ (noun) — the second syllable — why not with -j, as Osing has it?
- fnṯ — the second syllable — again, why not with -j?
- msdmt
- ḥḏt
- z — also, the vowel doesn’t match descendants — Akhmimic and Fayyumic have /a/ here, not /e/
- kꜣpt
Irregular developments/sound changes
[edit]- ꜣbd — development of -w at the end of the first plural would regularly be to /u/ rather than schwa; perhaps the form ought to be (contra Loprieno) not */ʀaˈbutʼw/ but */ʀaˈbutʼjaw/? Also unclear why initial unstressed /a/ is reduced in most descendants
- jꜣbtj — if the first vowel is /a/ it shouldn’t reduce to schwa
- jꜥn — the Sahidic descendant is unaccounted for
- jfdw — if the first vowel is /a/ it shouldn’t reduce to schwa; the Akkadian transcription also suggests something else is going on in the first syllable
- jmntj — if the first vowel is /a/ it shouldn’t reduce to schwa
- jḥ — if the first vowel is /a/ it shouldn’t reduce to schwa
- jḥw — if the first vowel is /a/ it shouldn’t reduce to schwa; also, the ending conflicts with Loprieno’s reconstruction, which we give at the singular
- jt — /t/ irregularly preserved in the plural
- ꜥnḏw — strange developments of first syllable, and the ending needs justification
- ꜥḥꜣwtj — why is the first syllable lost?
- ꜥqw — why does /w/ become /j/? Or why does Loprieno reconstruct /w/ rather than /j/? Note that Osing and Vycichl both reconstruct -/jVw/, not -/wVw/
- wpwt — irregular change of initial /w/ > /j/, and why is the second /w/ lost?
- wnn — inexplicable disappearance of the first n
- bjt — stressed vowel doesn’t match
- pt — given plural form (which is not in the Loprieno citation) would be expected to have the change /w/ > /j/ and end up as */peːʔ/
- mꜣj — irregular preservation of ꜣ > /j/ in this position
- mwt (“mother”) — irregular loss of final syllable; should become schwa
- mnty — irregular preservation of final schwa
- mr (“to suffer”) — unexplained retention of final /ɾ/; maybe restored by analogy with other verb forms?
- msḏj — irregular preservation of final schwa, perhaps by analogy with other verbs?
- nḥḥ — irregular monophthongization; descendants seem to demand /ˈnuːħVħ/, which, however, doesn’t match the given etymology
- ršwt — irregular disappearance of /w/ from final /wə/
- r-pr — descendants cannot possibly come from r-pr, must be a form like *r-prjt or somesuch
- rd (“bud, shoot”) — why does final /wə/ in the plural develop as if it’s /jə/?
- hbj — unaccounted-for monophtongization and metathesis (why not just /ˈhiːbaj/, plural /hiˈbaːjiw/ or somesuch? this is similar to what Osing proposes)
- ḥꜣb — glottal stop should come after the stressed vowel. But how to satisfy this when the stressed vowel is short and the word ends in /p/ rather than /β/?
- ḥfꜣw — /j/ from /ʀ/ should be preserved in this position and then vocalized, yielding Late Egyptian */ħafi/ rather than */ħaf/
- ḫprw — why does /w/ disappear in the plural? Once again, why does Loprieno reconstruct /w/ rather than /j/?
- ḫt — Bohairic would be expected to be *ϣⲁ (*ša), unless the original vowel is actually /u/ rather than /i/
- ẖpꜣ — irregular preservation of final schwa. Vycichl suggests the Coptic forms actually come from *ẖpꜣt */ˈçuplat/
- ẖt — the whole final syllable
- zꜣw — not sure exactly how to derive the Coptic forms, or why the Akkadian has tonic /a/ so early (or was it transcribed relatively late?)
- zt — vowel doesn’t match descendants — Akhmimic and Fayyumic have /a/ here, not /e/
- sw — why no vowel change?
- sbꜣ (“gate”) — is the Fayyumic descendant regular? And is the Akkadian transcription explicable? Vycichl gives it as pu-us-bé-u.
- šmj — irregular development /mj/ > /jj/ > /j/? > /ʔ/; Junge accepts such a development, but Vycichl postulates two different words instead, */ʃim/ and */ˈʃimjat/
- šr — irregular preservation of final schwa
- qbb — final /b/ fails to develop to /p/ — perhaps by analogy with the first /b/, since this is a reduplicated stem?
- kꜣmw — seems to me both singular and plural should have /u/ rather than /i/ as the stressed vowel. The plural also should maybe have a single rather than geminated /w/
- gbb — final /b/ vanishes or develops as if /w/ (perhaps /b/ > /w/ irregularly happened by the time of the New Kingdom?)
Other issues
[edit]- .sn — should generally develop as if unstressed, right?
- jꜥḥ — not a problem with our reconstruction per se, but with the whole reconstruction model — a form like /jaʕħ/ is highly implausible
- jtrw — need to ask User:Rhemmiel about source for ‘loss of t before r is a Late Egyptian sound change’; note that t before r behaved differently depending on whether the preceding vowel was stressed — maybe there’s some confusion here, whether on my part or theirs?
- -w — need to think through the possible forms & developments. Also not sure if Loprieno’s model of the suffix (which we currently follow) is widely accepted or needs changing
- mdwj — …what about that w? is this verb 4ae-inf or what?
- nb — sort out what’s going on with those speculative notes on dialect
- nswt — reconstructed based on what is probably an incorrect derviation; see etymology notes (and yet it works surprisingly well)
- hrw — is what’s going on at the end of the reconstructed plural idiosyncratic to Loprieno? should we reconstruct differently?
- ḥꜣtj — needs page for Loprieno citation
- ḥtp — labelled as a participle, but is it really? or just a rendering of the infinitive?
- z-n-wsrt — needs more careful investigation and coparison with Greek renderings to correctly determine how the compound developed
- sḫm — cited to Loprieno, but what evidence is he basing this on, and which of the nouns does this reconstruction correspond to?
- shouldn’t ejective and aspirable plosives be merged in most positions by 800 BCE? Current reconstructions don’t reflect this
- did final schwa from lost glides in fact survive into the Neo-Assyrian period? evidence in favor: jwnw, ḥr, šn, wꜥw; evidence against: ḫmnw, psḏw
- does ˈiː > ˈeː occur also in other environments? Peust in “Zur Herkunft des koptischen ⲏ”, page 118–119, says that Osing gives its environment as / _[ʕ, ħ, χ, q’, j] (but optional in all cases). If those conditions are still accepted as valid, it would at least in part explain nḥḥ above