User talk:Barmar/2008

traformare

This verb is not in any dictionary - but seems to be used as trasformare. OK to add it? SemperBlotto 10:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

traformare is simply a misspelling of trasformare --Barmar 19:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

succube / succubo

This adjective seems to be used two ways - either with o/a/i/e or e/i endings. I am not really happy with the format, so feel free to improve them if you want. Also, I can't think of a simple English translation - maybe dominated? SemperBlotto 09:43, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard these o/a forms, we usually say succube, M and F, plural succubi; BTW according to my Zingarelli dictionary they are synonyms of succube. I think that dominated is fine as short translation, but I'd keep your other translation as well. --Barmar 19:56, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

ci penso io‎

Is this OK? I've not come across it (and it's not a verb). SemperBlotto 20:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks fine. Well done, this is a very common expression.--Barmar 08:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It is not one of my contributions - that's why I asked. SemperBlotto 08:49, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah... I'm still sleeping, really Barmar 08:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

ºi and ªi

Are these OK? Are there plurals? Are there any more? SemperBlotto 23:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

No, they're not correct. The abbreviation of primo and prima are 1º and 1ª. Barmar 06:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

continuamo

Over 40,000 Google hits for this. Is it an acceptable variant of continuiamo or just a common spelling mistake? SemperBlotto 17:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

It really looks like a common misspelling, all the dictionaries I can find say that continuare is a perfectly regular verb. Cheers --Barmar 06:56, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

demitazza

This English word has just been added - with a supposed Italian etymology. But I have never come across it, and it is not in my dictionary. Is it new? SemperBlotto 08:16, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Buongiorno! No, it is not an Italian word. demi is French and means half. The correct Italian word would be mezzatazza = mezza + tazza that (luckily..it sounds terrible) doesn't exist.

novecentesco

Is this OK? Does it also mean tenth-century? What is the word for the adjective twentyfirst-century (or however we spell that!)? SemperBlotto 17:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

It's fine. According to the Zingarelli dictionary this adj only refers to the 1900. I don't think we have a word meaning twentyfirst-century.. the only translation that comes to my mind is "del ventunesimo secolo". As for the exact boundaries of the 20th century, I copy & paste from w:century: "It is commonly-help misconception that the 20th century ended on December 31, 1999. The 20th century actually ended on December 31, 2000, its centennial year." Buona serata. Barmar 19:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

n-year-olds

Yo! I have recently added undicenne, dodicenne, tredicenne, quattordicenne, quindicenne and sedicenne. SemperBlotto 11:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Great! It's such a big work.. We also have diciassettenne, diciottenne, diciannovenne, ventenne, ventunenne, ventiduenne, ventitreenne......... centenne, centunenne, centoduenne etc. ect. (-: You can also write them in this form: 11enne, 12enne..... 117enne.

• Doh! I didn't ask the question! Are there forms for smaller numbers? SemperBlotto 19:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC) (p.s. See Statistics)
• :-Oooooo <-statistics | The forms for smaller numbers exist, although we rarely use them. I've found in dictionaries cinquenne, seienne, settenne, ottenne, novenne but not dueenne treenne and quattrenne although they have some results in Google.
• OK - I have added some of them (but I suppose we have to stop somewhere or I wouldn't get anything else done). By the way, there are also hits for zeroenne - but I won't be adding it just yet. SemperBlotto 11:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

tangere

My source says that this verb is defective (see its conjugation). Is that correct (De Mauro says that it is just like "credere")? SemperBlotto 16:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Also my Zingarelli says that nowadays tangere is a third-person-only verb. It also says that this verb doesn't have passato remoto, past participle and consequently compound forms. (Incidentally, I strongly agree, that tanguto sounds extremely bad) Barmar 20:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

barbiturico

Thought you might be interested in the etymology of barbituric. I can't remember if the woman involved was the wife or daughter of Adolf von Baeyer the German chemist. SemperBlotto 09:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh mine! that's very funny! Buona giornata, carissimo. Barmar 09:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Problems

I'm having problems trying to find an English word with the same meaning as trattatistica. tradition doesn't seem quite right. Any ideas? SemperBlotto 10:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I also can't figure out exactly what a ferruccio is! SemperBlotto 12:22, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Buondì! According to my Zingarelli trattatistica = treatises. Here's the definition from the Zanichelli: "L'insieme dei trattati (=treatises, studies) che riguardano una disciplina o che appartengono a una determinata epoca".

OK - literature (third meaning, that I had to add). SemperBlotto 09:41, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard the word ferruccio. It's clearly a diminutive of ferro but I can't figure out what exactly it can be (a tool used in a specific field?). Can you copy the exact phrase where you found it? Barmar 06:35, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I found it in User:Matthias_Buchmeier#Italian_frequency_list, but Google shows it to be a surname "Ferruccio" - I shall ignore it for now. SemperBlotto 08:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC) p.s. De Mauro has "ciascuno degli arpioncini piantati nelle reste e nei rastrelli dei lanaioli"

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I've understood now. Ferruccio is a (rare, actually) given name! see i.e. w:it:Ferruccio de Bortoli. That list is full of proper nouns in small letters anf of misspelling as well. Barmar 08:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, most are easy to spot, but a few get under the radar. SemperBlotto 08:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Latest word that I can't quite figure out - embricato - seems to be related to embrice SemperBlotto 22:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC) - figured it out SemperBlotto 12:13, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

family affairs

Hi Barmar, could you tell me please how to translate "family affairs" into Italian? Thank you Mallerd 18:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

• Hi. In which context? Generically you can say "affari di famiglia" but other translations are possible. Barmar 09:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much :D the context was someone asking what I was going away for. Ciao! Mallerd 12:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

gremolata

Have I got this right? It isn't in any of my Italian dictionaries, or in Italian Wikipedia or Wiktionary. SemperBlotto 16:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

It looks fine although I've never heard this word (It looks like a Northern Italy sauce and I'm from Tuscany). Bonne journée.Barmar 10:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

spulciare

Would you use this verb when talking of the mutual activity of apes etc. going through each other's fur and picking out pests? (grooming in English). SemperBlotto 10:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, in this sense as well and also of humans removing fleas from their pets fur. Barmar 12:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

in scatola

Is in scatola idiomatic (i.e., beyond being the sum of its parts)?—msh210℠ 19:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. Yes, in scatola is an adjective or adverb whose meaning is beyond the sum of its parts --> canned or tinned where the literal translation is simply 'in can' or 'in tin' that means nothing. As reference info pls see [1]. Barmar 11:25, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

briscola

Do you happen to know what this card game is in English? SemperBlotto 10:29, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

• Salve! No, and my Zanichelli dictionary and Wikipedia 'translate' it into "briscola" 8-) It definitely looks like an Italian thing. Barmar 09:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

gemellarsi

Is that good enough? SemperBlotto 15:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

• Yep looks good, in this manner those searching for gemelliamo gemellate etc etc can find their way to gemellarsi. Buon weekend (sperando che per te questo sia migliore di quello precedente)

far capriole

Can you rescue this entry? My dictionary only has fare una capriola and fare le capriole per la gioa. SemperBlotto 14:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

• done Barmar 17:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

girotondo

Do you know the Italian words sung in this game? See w:Ring a Ring o' Roses for the English version. SemperBlotto 17:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

• Please see [2] (the first one is more common) cheers Barmar 10:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Romance language verb cleanup project

I'd like to invite you to participate in a community effort to improve the quality of common verbs in Romance languages. I've started a project page at User:EncycloPetey/Latin verbs. The plan to select (or have someone select) one or two new "verbs" each week for cleanup and expansion beyond the basic content. By "verb", I mean the corresponding entry across several Latin-descended languages, and not simply a single entry. Your help with Italian entries would be much appreciated. See the project page for more details and the current selection (listed near the top of the page, as well as highlighted in the tables). --EncycloPetey 07:34, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

verbs, verbs, verbs

Hi there. Do you think you could slow down a bit on new verbs. I find that I get little time to do anything else except prepare bot input. Maybe mix them in with nouns and adjectives etc. Cheers. Jeff (I'm up to about 15:00 this afternoon but now have to go and cook) SemperBlotto 16:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Ciao! Maybe we can do a different thing. I can write them on the feed-the-bot list so that you don't have to constantly scan the recent changes log and you can conjugate them whenever you want (also when I've finished the ri- verbs list). What do you think? Barbara-la-crea-verbi-a-raffica Barmar 07:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
  • OK (I was having a bad day yesterday). Keep up the good work. SemperBlotto 07:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
    • OK, I'll write the list at the end of each day, then. (I can understand you..don't worry with the baby etc I'm having hard days too) Barmar 07:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

mouli

Can you confirm this entry? If so, is it m/f/inv? SemperBlotto 17:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• No, I've never heard this word and the Zingarelli doesn't contain it. Buona serata. Barmar 19:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

trebisonda

Can you complete this definition? SemperBlotto 17:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

pasta brisée

Have I got the plural correct? SemperBlotto 10:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

• Yes Barmar 13:04, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

pascolare

Hi, what does pascolare mean? thanks Mallerd 11:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

• To graze (both transitive and intransitive) - also, a figurative meaning, something like "obtaining ill-gotten gains". SemperBlotto 12:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Grazie Mallerd 13:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Compound forms of imperatives

Hi there. These are the Google hits for every possible combination for cercare.

• cercaci 12,000
• cercagli 798 <--- rare for most verbs
• cercala 65,900
• cercale 20,300
• cercali 35,500
• cercalo 395,000
• cercami 314,000
• cercane 23,100
• cercasi 7,480,000 <--- this is used in ads, like vendesi or affittasi = we search for, only a few other verbs have this form
• cercati 3,220,000 <-- past participle, but also OK as a rare compound form
• cercavi 2,070,000 <--- imperfect, not a compound form

• cerchici 22 <--- misspelling
• cerchigli 27 <--- misspelling
• cerchila 165 <--- misspelling
• cerchile 307 <--- misspelling
• cerchili 573 <--- misspelling
• cerchilo 437 <--- misspelling
• cerchimi 24 <--- misspelling
• cerchine 255 <--- misspelling
• cerchisi 1,090 <--- misspelling
• cerchiti 83 <--- misspelling
• cerchivi 14 <--- misspelling

• cerchiamoci 4,500
• cerchiamogli 299 <--- rare for most verbs
• cerchiamola 2,580
• cerchiamole 1,010
• cerchiamoli 6,350
• cerchiamolo 3,470
• cerchiamomi 0 (zero) <--- it does not exist
• cerchiamone 1,860
• cerchiamosi 3 <--- it does not exist
• cerchiamoti 2 <--- it does not exist
• cerchiamovi 7 <--- it does not exist

• cercateci 5,640
• cercategli 212 <--- rare for most verbs
• cercatela 19,100
• cercatele 13,000
• cercateli 17,800
• cercatelo 58,400
• cercatemi 52,300
• cercatene 12,900
• cercatesi 79 <--- misspelling
• cercateti 6 <--- misspelling
• cercatevi 20,000

• cerchinoci 0 <--- misspelling
• cerchinogli 1 <--- misspelling
• cerchinola 2 <--- misspelling
• cerchinole 3 <--- misspelling
• cerchinoli 0 <--- misspelling
• cerchinolo 0<--- misspelling
• cerchinomi 0<--- misspelling
• cerchinone 2<--- misspelling
• cerchinosi 1<--- misspelling
• cerchinoti 0<--- misspelling
• cerchinovi 0<--- misspelling

Do you think that this pattern would be broadly repeated for all verbs? If so, should I inlude them all (except maybe the last group) when I add any? Or should I only add the ones that I actually find in the real world? Or some compromise between those two options?

I shall talk later about the conbinations with two pronouns! Jeff SemperBlotto 11:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I've addedsome comments above, see the <---s . I have to think a bit about your question I'll answer later or tomorrow. Buona serata.

I think that the safest thing would be to only add words that we come across as red links (and maybe closely related ones - e.g. -arla, -arle, -arli-, -arlo). Unfortunately we already have almost 2,000 entries in Category:Italian combined forms - most of them are probably OK, but there must be some rubbish as well. SemperBlotto 22:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

'ngiorno Jeff. I was about to write the same thing. IMHO we could create all (or nearly all, there are so maaaaany!!!!) the combined forms for the MOST popular verbs such as chiamare, cercare, avere and so on and then just fill the red links we bump into (ie in frequency lists such as those of TheDaveRoss or Mattias B.). If you want I can write down a list of these verbs for you. What do you think? When I have time I will also give a look at Category:Italian combined forms in order to spot the most obvious rubbish. Last thing, I have changed something (I mean the text after the <----'s) in the list above. Bonne dimanche. Barmar 08:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

OK. I shall just add red links from now on. Adding all possibilities was just being lazy on my part. (I shall also email you soon on another matter). SemperBlotto 08:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Conditional of provvedere

We have provvedrebbe ecc. (and this seems to be "correct" according to [3] but provvederebbe ecc. seems to be much more common. Are we right or wrong? SemperBlotto 10:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Wrong. According to both Zingarelli and Wordreference http://www.wordreference.com/conj/ItVerbs.asp?v=provvedere the correct conjugation is provvederei provvederesti, provvederebbe etc. Barmar 15:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Ta muchly. Fixed. SemperBlotto 15:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

verificatasi verificatesi verificatisi

More confusion. Are these the past participles of verificare + si, but verificatosi is just the past participle of verificarsi? SemperBlotto 07:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

They're past participle forms of verificarsi. (I've just realized that correre has also a transitive meaning, you definitely can't correre someone, but you CAN correre a race! so correrla correrlo etc are correct forms!) Barmar 08:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Autoedit

Hi there. Sorry for bothering you too. I'm trying to use Autoedit.. if it is not too complicated (I'm not into programming and things like that). Well let's see.. I've created the page http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Barmar/monobook.js, when you have time (it's all but urgent! :-) can you tell me please what is the next step? Thank you very much, Barbara Barmar 09:17, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I'm happy if I can help. I can see you've already installed the JavaScript code. You must then refresh by pressing F5 or the referesh button on a Wiktionary page in order to activate the code. The actual use of the tool is a bit more complicated, but it is explained on the Autoedit page. The code operates through URLs, so you need to use links. For example, by clicking this link all "Autoedit" words are replaced by AUTOEDIT if you click save changes. The syntax is http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/[pagename]?action=edit&autoedit=s~[text to be replaced]~[new text]&autoclick=[what happens when you click the button]&autominor=[minor edit?]&autosummary=[the text that is written to summary]. You may have to URL encode some characters, such as space → %20 as is shown in the example.--Jyril 09:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Just add a circumflex (^) between s~ and ~g. ^ = line start in regular expressions. --Jyril 10:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Italian frequency lists

Hi Barbara, at the moment I can load them without problem. I suppose that You experience problems like empty pages, which I also get sporadically for these pages, and even sometimes for some smaller pages form the (Main) namespace. I dont known for sure what the reason for this type of problems is, but I guess that they should be somehow related to the wikimedia servers, and possibly have to do server load, as at some times it seems very hard to load a page, and at other times there seems to be no problem at all. Matthias Buchmeier 16:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I have generated new lists with words split after apostrophes. It seems that entries for quite some of the shortened forms like dov', c' etc. are still missing. I have also made the full lists at my user page shorter, which seems to overcome the previous display problems. Matthias Buchmeier 12:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

newyorkese

Adjective and/or noun? SemperBlotto 22:14, 25 June 2008 (UTC) (p.s. First in a series of questions, mostly concerning words that I came across on my recent trip)

Both of them.--Barmar 08:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

rendersene

Is this a combined form of rendersi + ne? SemperBlotto 11:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, or better a combined form of rendersi conto (in Google "rendersene conto" 206,000 results, "rendersene -conto" 3,000 results) --Barmar 12:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

• OK - would you like to add a translation in this case? SemperBlotto 13:47, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

done --Barmar 14:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Non-Wiki question

During the last couple of visits to Italy, I have often seen short lengths of coloured, corrugated plastic tubing (about 4 cm. diameter) coming out of the pavement next to houses. None of them seem to be connected to anything. What are they? SemperBlotto 17:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a pliable conduit system? <-cut&paste it in Google images --Barmar 18:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Probably - next time I shall take a photo. SemperBlotto 07:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Second question. What do you call the person (often a woman, these days) on a vaporetto who handles the ropes and gates at each stop? SemperBlotto 07:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmh... I'd call them addetto/a all'attracco or assistente all'ormeggio but I don't know if a more specific term exists. --Barmar 07:52, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Et voilà! The right word came to my mind: it's ormeggiatore (the person who moors a boat: a moorer??). Buona domenica. --Barmar 09:23, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Italian abbreviations etc

It is my understanding that these start with an uppercase letter, and the rest are lowercase. Is this always the case (no pun intended)? I have just added Usa as an example - and I note that we already have some that are all uppercase. Any thoughts? SemperBlotto 17:28, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that both forms are correct (Usa USA, Nato NATO, Pdf, PDF..), but I'm not sure. Just for the record, I tend to prefer the first one. --Barmar 09:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Numbers!

I've been meaning to have a cleanup of Italian cardinal and ordinal numbers for some time. In making a start, I have come across a few uncertainties. See my Italian sandbox. 1) In 23 to 93, are the accents correct? 2) In 38 to 98, some of our entries have an extra "a" between "ant" and "otto" - is this correct? I'm sure I will have more questions later, but this is from the very beginning! SemperBlotto 11:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

The correct accent is the 'é' while the 'è' is wrong. I don't believe that those -antaotto forms are correct, I've never heard them and also Wikipedia has cinquantotto etc without any alt spellings, see http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/58_(numero). (Can you please create entries for commissariare transitive verb and commissariamento noun, http://www.demauroparavia.it/24755 or http://www.pbmstoria.it/dizionari/dizcittadino/lemmi/083.htm, I really don't know how to translate them!) --Barmar 11:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

1) OK thanks. 2) Good grief! - I've had an attempt. SemperBlotto 13:49, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

2) Look fine, thanks. --Barmar 14:26, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I now have an expanded version of what will be Appendix:Italian numbers in my Italian sandbox. Feel free to make any corrections, additions etc (and see the section on aritmetic - I have forgotten how to say "three time seven equals twenty-one" and "ten divided by two equals four"!! SemperBlotto 14:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I've added x e : examples. Too boiling hot here (nearly 40°!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) to think about addictions etc :-), anyway that page looks OK or better great. --Barmar 15:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. When you've cooled down - which format do you prefer - trenta or trentuno (i.e. noun + adjective or cardinal number)? SemperBlotto 21:29, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Uhm well, it's all the same to me, but dictionaries seem to prefer the trenta solution http://www.demauroparavia.it/122853 (heat wave continues :-(( http://www.tempoitalia.it/previsioni/meteo/italia/giorno_1/firenze.html look at the 'temperatura percepita'!) --Barmar 09:11, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

We don't often get temperatura percepita in England - our problem is wind chill at the other end of the thermomemeter. (Today 22°C - blue sky + fluffy white clouds - breezy) SemperBlotto 10:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

22°??? :-O I envy you!! Here 32°, a little better than last days, but meteorologist say isn't finished yet. :-( Today we ate panzanella... hot food is simply impossible to eat. Returning on topic, maybe temperatura percepita = perceived temperature, deserves one own entry. --Barmar 13:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

vallo to vacci

Are these from the "tu" form of the imperative? SemperBlotto 07:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, va + lo la etc --Barmar 07:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

As I thought - but we haven't got va as imperative, only va' and vai - is that OK? SemperBlotto 08:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I've (also) checked in the Zingarelli: va is imperative as well. I've already fixed the conj of andare. --Barmar 09:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

annunciarsi

And could you check this one please. I think that's what it means. SemperBlotto 08:18, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct. --Barmar 08:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

de/ne

Please see the latest entry in my talk page - you might like to talk to Paul directly. SemperBlotto 07:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

(moved from separately posted item) Thanks for the explanation on SemperBlotto's page of "ne" and "de" as apocopic forms of "nel" and "del". I take it "ne" can be used for any of "nel", "nei", "nello", "negli", "nella" and "nelle", and "de" can be used similarly - is this correct? I have added a usage note to this effect to both ne and de. Grazie. — Paul G 16:47, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct. You can say ne "Il postino" but also ne "La dolce vita" or ne "I promessi sposi" and so on. --Barmar 20:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

chiedermelo & chiedertelo

Form of chiedersi + lo or chiedere + melo, telo ? Or are glielo ecc. the only pronouns of that form? SemperBlotto 09:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC) (20°C, drizzle)

• Duh! If all else fails, look in the textbook. It must be "chiedere" + "me" + "lo" (ecc.) SemperBlotto 11:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, they're chiedere + me + lo and chiedere + te + lo, you may look at comunicarmelo for a similar entry. Glielo is the only pronoun of that form. Melo, telo, selo instead don't exist as pronouns, also in order to not generate confusion with the nouns that have a completely different meaning (e.g. melo is the apple tree). --Barmar 14:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

OK. And finally! In the case of dammelo ecc. (from dare) - is this the only verb in which the "m" of "me" gets doubled? SemperBlotto 14:37, 5 July 2008 (UTC) (p.s. I have just remembered dimmi) (p.p.s. And I have just found fammela - so is it just verbs with single-syllable stems?)

Yes (probably) it's just with those verbs. Actually we need that 'm'; 'damelo' 'famela' 'dimi' 'dami' would sound terrrrrrrible. Buona domenica.--Barmar 08:01, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Combinations from fare

(I know, I know - will it never end?!) De Mauro has farcela, farci, farla and farsi as verbs in their own right. So I am rather confused about what to do with many elements of this list - farceli farcelo fargliela fargliele fargliene farglielo farmela farmelo farmene farsela farseli farselo farsene fartele fartela fartelo fartene farvelo fateci fategli fatela fateli fatelo fatemela fatemi i.e. which ones are from fare and which from the other related verbs. SemperBlotto 10:29, 6 July 2008 (UTC) (18°C blustery showers)

No, it won't ever end :-) BTW, I'd say:

• farceli farcelo fargliela fargliele fargliene farglielo <--forms of fare
• farmela farmelo farmene farsela farseli farselo farsene fartele fartela fartelo fartene farvelo<-- forms of farsi
• fateci fategli fatela fateli fatelo fatemela fatemi <-- form of fare
  

(32° but windy, not too bad) --Barmar 10:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

pressoterapia

Any idea of an English translation? (It has an entry on it.Wikipedia, but it doesn't ring any bells with me) SemperBlotto 16:40, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

http://dizionari.corriere.it/cgi-bin/sansing/find has pressotherapy or maybe lymphatic drainage or lymph drainage, but I don't know if it's the same thing --Barmar 16:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Past participles of intransitive verbs

See User talk:SemperBlottoBot - I must admit that this is what I was taught some years ago. But I can find counterexamples that seem to be written by Italians. Any thoughts? SemperBlotto 14:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Buondì. I'm cutting&copying from http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participio: "Non esistono forme femminili o plurali dei verbi che, malgrado siano intransitivi, vengono coniugati con avere (pranzare, sparlare)." Another bad news: according to the same source present participles have a plural form! (rare actually, and only used in formal contexts). At this point we need an invariable past participle template (something similar to {{en-noun|-}}) --Barmar 07:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

OK - I have modified {{it-pp}} to take "-" as a second parameter - see pranzato Feel free to use it where appropriate (and advise on its use in the bot's feedme file). SemperBlotto 10:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

OK --Barmar 13:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

But see [4] - De Mauro says it takes the o/a/i/e forms. And my textbook says "The past participle may be used as an adjective. When used as an adjective it must agree in gender and number . . ." I'm tending towards not rushing into anything. SemperBlotto 14:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Aaaaaaaaaargh! it's getting more and more difficult! :-) Yes of course, an adjective takes all the forms, although that adj is surely rare. I've never heard the expression 'rushing into anything' but if it means 'doing nothing', I tend to agree with you. --Barmar 09:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

What about a compromise. Where the pp is probably invariant, then we use the new form of the template - but we let the bot add the other forms anyway (just in case anyone finds a use for them). SemperBlotto 09:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC) p.s. It looks like De Mauro always says a past participle is also an adjective - without checking any actual use, or that it makes any sense.

Good compromise, I support it. (Yes, theoretically every pp can be used as an adjective, but in practice only a few are in use) --Barmar 10:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Compromise invoked for strepitare - De Mauro shows past participle without adjective (proving me wrong). SemperBlotto 16:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok.. although.. strepitata doesn't sound that bad, while pranzata is 100%-awful. --Barmar 07:39, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

three

We have this translated as tre. De Mauro and my Zingarelli only have entries for tré. Italian wiktionary has tre for Italian, tré for Neapolitan. What do you think? SemperBlotto 11:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that I've always written and seen everywhere tre not tré. Also my Zingarelli, Wikipedia http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tre and Wikizionario http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/tre have tre. IMHO that DeMauro accent is just a pronunciation accent, like those you can see in http://www.demauroparavia.it/84520 po|li|re|mà|ti|ca or in http://www.demauroparavia.it/94093 ri|cèt|ta. --Barmar 12:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I thought. But if you go to De Mauro and type in tre it doesn't find anything, you have to type in tré. I have sent them an email - it will probably get ignored. SemperBlotto 14:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Combined forms of stare

stacci stagli stammi statemi stagli ecc.. must be imperative + pronoun - but I'm not sure of how to translate them. e.g. "stacci" - stay there, or stay with us? I assume starmene startene are forms of starsene - I'll leave that conjugation to you. SemperBlotto 10:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, -ci has two meanings: 'there' (hence 'stay there') and 'to us' that in this case is linked to the expression "stacci bene" that can also be "stammi bene", "stateci bene" and "statemi bene" (see http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=38693). They mean "take care", "take care of yourself" or "look after yourself" and are used to end letters or when saying goodbye to friends/relatives. Yes, starmene and startene are forms of starsene. --Barmar 12:43, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Ops, I was forgetting: stacci is also the plural of staccio --Barmar 13:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

quattroruote

Is this just a car that has four wheels? Or is it a four-wheel-drive car? SemperBlotto 14:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Just a four-wheels car. A four-wheel-drive car is a "quattro per quattro". Buona domenica --Barmar 11:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. As you can see, I've made a start on numbers - working up slowly from the bottom. So - what do you call the number minus one - as in "the square root of minus one". I have searched it.Wikipedia and they keep using -1 instead of a word. SemperBlotto 12:06, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

-1 is meno uno or uno sotto zero ---> one below zero (when referring to temperatures) --Barmar 12:10, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Extra buttons?

Hi Barmar, I've seen you around on Wiktionary for ever, would you be interested in becoming an admin which would give you a few extra buttons (notably delete) to play with? Conrad.Irwin 12:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

settantotto

Is this word used for the old-style gramophone records that zoomed round at 78 revs per minute? SemperBlotto 07:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

No, we call them settantotto giri --Barmar 12:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

democraticissimo

This now uses the new template - and your original plain text. Is that OK? When I get to cento I shall take a break from numbers, add the documentation to the new template, and modify the adjective bot. Do you want the feminine and plural forms to be just like those of ordinary adjectives? SemperBlotto 10:01, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow! Well done! Yes, it is absolutely OK. No, now that you make me think about it, plural and feminine forms are different, because also e/i adjectives take all the four forms (e.g. the superlative of interessante is interessantissimo/a/i/e). --Barmar 11:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I meant - Do you want them to say "plural form of interassantissimo" or whatever, and be in the category "Italian adjective forms"? SemperBlotto 14:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

OK. Bot modified to handle adjectives using either template. In testing - I found fittizio doing strange things - I'll let you correct it! SemperBlotto 14:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Ottimo! Re:fittizio Oh oooooooooooooops (blushing).. I've fixed it --Barmar 09:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

More numbers

Is it centotto or centootto?

centootto - OK

I haven't started ordinal numbers yet, but have stumbled over centodecimo - are there any other minefields to cross?

Yes, centottavo centonono and others (see http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wikizionario:Tutti_i_numeri_in_lettere) - OK (I'll try to remember)

This page, like several other sites, always leaves one asking questions that they can't answer. So it's due milioni rather than duemilioni (Google agrees) - but then what? Is is due milioniuno or due milioni e uno? (I have seen numbers that have sequences of zeros split in this way e.g. 200.002 as "duecentomila e due" - but what are the rules? - it is so frustrating!) SemperBlotto 08:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the rules and Google doesn't help. IMHO both duemilioniuno and duemilioni and uno are correct, although the second is clearer. With bigger numbers we usually use the first form instead: due milioni ottocentododicimilaquattrocento, not due milioni e ottocentododicimilaquattrocento. Can we skip this point, at least for the moment? --Barmar 11:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

If you have time, could you stare hard at Appendix:Italian numbers and add anything that needs to be added, correct any mistakes etc.

I've done some small changes (see history) - Thanks

Am I correct in saying that numbers can be of any length (cento mila gets many more hits that centomila).

I'm not sure I have understood your doubt. BTW yes, numbers can be of any lenght (unmiliardocentodiciottomilionisettecentoquattordicimilacinquecentosedici :-) The form cento mila, due mila etc. is rare. - OK

Could you also check the names of the red links in centomila please - though I shall never add the two cardinal numbers.

I've done a couple of changes - Thanks

• Numbers ending in 3 - can you confirm or deny (Appendix will need updating)
  • xx03 => xxtre (no accent even though stress on final syllable)

Are you meaning milletre, centomilatre and so on? IMHO they're wrong, the accent is necessary for a correct pronounciation (just my 2cents) - OK - I'll move centotre to centotré but leave the redirect. I'll also update 103 (numero) and see if anyone complains.

• • xx13 => xxtredici

OK

• • xxn3 => xxventitré to xxnovetré (acute accent)

xxventitré is OK, are you sure that is novetré and not novantatré??? - Oops!

(More questions to come, I expect)

OK --Barmar 10:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

SemperBlotto 08:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Re this quote "L’importo complessivo dell’opera ammonta a diecimilioni e mezzo di euro finanziati dalla Regione, Provincia e Comune ..." - does that mean ten and a half million (ten million five hundred thousand)? SemperBlotto 11:05, 20 July 2008 (UTC) p.s. ALL numbers up to a thousand now added (by bot) and I'm thinking about big ones.

Yes 10,500,000 --Barmar 15:14, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

OK - I finished numbers some time ago, but I wondered - how do you say (rather than write) hotel room numbers? In English rooms 210 and 209 would be "two ten" and "two oh nine". And a similar, nonnumeric query - how do you say www (and the dot as well). SemperBlotto 14:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

• No special spelling for hotel rooms; 210 is duecentodieci 209 is duecentonove, and so on, although 209 can also pronounced as due zero nove, 210 as due uno zero etc. www. is "vu vu vu punto", so e.g. www.raisport.rai.it is "vu vu vu raisport punto rai punto it". @ instead is "chiocciola", so mario.rossi@alice.it is "mario punto rossi chiocciola alice punto it"; mario-rossi@alice.it is "mario trattino rossi chiocciola alice punto it"; mario_rossi@alice.it is "mario trattino basso rossi chiocciola alice punto it". --Barmar 16:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

abbacare and abbaco

What do you make of these? Can you fix them? SemperBlotto 21:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• Done --Barmar 06:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

discernere

Are you sure about the imperfect, future, conditional and subjunctive? Google thinks it should be di... rather than de... SemperBlotto 08:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Ops!... fixed --Barmar 13:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

benvolere

Is this OK? SemperBlotto 21:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the Zingarelli says this verb lacks the other tenses (We also have its antonym malvolere following the same rule). --Barmar 04:07, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

budello

Could you check this one please. I'm not sure in which section the simple tube should go. SemperBlotto 10:15, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

It looks fine. Buona domenica --Barmar 05:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

qualcuna

Yes, I know qualcuno is invariable, but there are almost 200,000 Google hits for qualcuna. Do you think we should include something? SemperBlotto 19:00, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

• Qualcuno is singular-only but not invariable and qualcuna is its feminine form. E.g. you can say: 'chiama qualcuna delle tue amiche. ho delle caramelle, ne vuoi qualcuna? ne avrà combinata qualcuna delle sue' (cut & copied from http://www.demauroparavia.it/89421) --Barmar 06:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

putrefare and similar

An anonymous user pointed out that we had the wrong past-participle for this. What we actually had was a completely wrong conjugation. I have a partial list of this type of verb in -ere - can you add any more that you can think of to it please. If there are lots more then I shall create yet another conjugation template (and one for the reflexives). Cheers. SemperBlotto 10:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

• I've added some more of these compound forms of fare, including some rare ones (like tepefare). I think that the list is almost complete now, so we don't really need a template for them. Other verbs ending in -fare (ie dattilografare, telegrafare..) are not compound of fare and follow the regular -are conj. Augurandoti una serena domenica, --Barmar 10:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I'll copy/edit/paste the conjugations of the ones that I create.

premii

Is this an alternative plural of premio? There are quite a lot of hits for it. SemperBlotto 17:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

It is a misspelling of premi, I've created it. Actually only 33,700 of those entries are Italian pages. --Barmar 08:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

ginnasio

I'm not totally sure of the modern meaning - could you check please. SemperBlotto 11:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Fixed according to http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginnasio_(sistema_scolastico_italiano) --Barmar 15:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

capo--- nouns

Buongiorno! A number of nouns of the form capo---- have plurals of the form capi----. I was wondering if there are female forms as well? SemperBlotto 10:36, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi there, from rainy Italy! Caporale is m and f; I've fixed it. The feminine forms of caporione and capoccione are respectively caporiona and capocciona. Also caposala is m and f and needs some editing ( ward sister doesn't look appropriate for a man). --Barmar 16:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
  • OK - I'll try to take more care. Have I got the correct plural for caposaldo? (Should it be capisaldi?) SemperBlotto 19:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Yes, capisaldi --Barmar 15:50, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

coxless and coxed

Do you not need timoniere in the term? SemperBlotto 07:48, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

• No, usually we don't use it see http://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canottaggio&action=edit&section=3 --Barmar 07:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

my sandbox

Hi there again.

Thanks for the help with those words in my sandbox. I have made an effort to clear some of the older words. semitotale seems to have a specialized meaning in filmmaking.

In case you were wondering, this is how I use the sandbox. I find a page of Italian text - lets say the w:it:Fiume as an example. I copy the text and run it through a couple of programs that produces a wikified list of all the words it contains (see later). I save this on my computer and copy it to the sandbox in batches, removing those words that get blue links, and also removing obvious rubbish. My software converts all uppercase letters to lowercase so names of people and places get broken. It also throws away all punctuation and funny characters (so nell' becomes nell). This process finds lots of ordinary words that are missing and also a smattering of specialized and technical words that need further research. The following is what I have just obtained from the it.wikipedia article on fiume - as you see we get a pretty high percentage of blue links. Cheers SemperBlotto 13:42, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

a abbondante abitanti acqua acque ad affioramento affluenti ai al alcuni alimentati all alla allargano alle alluvionale alto altri altro alveo ambientale anch anche andamento anno annuale area aree argini artificiali asciutte asciutto aspetti assemblea assumere attraversato attraverso avviene azione bacini bacino basso c campagna campagne canyon capacità carattere caratteristica caratteristiche caratterizzano casi caso cerca cercando che ci cioè circostante circostanti climatiche coefficiente collegamenti colorado come comincia compattezza competente compiuto comprende compresi con condizione congo considerando consulta contenere coordinamento corpa <- typo; I've fixed it in it Wikipedia corpo correlate corsi corso costante costituisce costituiscono costruiti così cui d da dai dal dall dalla dalle dallo danni danubio <-Danubio dati deflusso dei del delimitano dell della delle delta denominato depositati depositi deposizione determina determinati determinazione detto di difendere differenti difficilmente diminuirne diminuisce diritto disambigua disastrose discesa distinguere distribuzione diverso divide dopo dove due durante e eccetto eccezionale ecosistema ed educazione elevata enciclopedia equilibrio erosione erosiva esame esempio esiste essendo essere esso esterni estuario evitare fiume fiumi flusso fluviale fluviali foce fondo forestale forma formata formati forti generata geolitologiche <- ???? geomorfologia ghiacciai gli governare grand guidanatura <- guida natura (URL) ha i ideale idrico idrogeologico il imbuto immette impone importanti impropriamente in incisione incontrare indice individuare individuati infatti infine ingegneria inondare inondi intende interne interno invece italia italiani l la lago lati lavoro le legge letti letto libera lista livello lo longitudinale loro lunghezza lunghi maggior maggiore magra man mano marche mare materia materiale meridionale migliorarne minuto mississippi <- Mississippi misura modifica modo molte molto mondo morbida n nasce nascondi naturali navigabilità navigazione nazionale nei nel nell nella nevi nilo <-Nilo nome non norma normalmente normativa nota né o occupata opere ormai osservatorio ovvero pagina paralleli parlando parte particolare passa pendenza pensile per percorso perenne periodi periodo piano pianura piena piene piovose più po poca porta portata possibile possono potranno precipitazioni prende prendendo presenti primi primo profilo progetti proposito propria punto può quale quando quantità quanto quelle quello questa queste questo quindi quota r raccoglie raccolta rami ramo rapportare rappresenta rari reale recettore regime regionale regioni rilievi rimanere rispetto risultato russia s sbocca scavato scende scioglimento scorre scorrimento se secchi secoli secondo sedimentazione sedimenti semplice sempre senna settembre sezione sgorga si sicuramente significati singoli situazione situazioni soggetti solco solo sono sopraelevazione sorgente sotterranei sovente sponde stai stata stesso strutturali studio su sua subire subisce suddividere suddivise sue sugli sui sul suo suoi superata tale tali tamigi<-Tamigi tempo termina terreno territori territorio terrà tipi tipologia torino torrente tra tracciato tramite trasportato trasversale tratti tre triangolare tutta tutte umidi un una uni unire unità usi utile v vai valle variabile variazioni vedi velocità versanti verso viceversa vincolo voci volga volte volume

• Wow! This is very useful (and interesting)! About semitotale, I've found this: SEMITOTALE: inquadratura cinematografica che inquadra parte sempre grande di un interno, di un ambiente, ma non inquadrato nella totalità. and this: "campo semi totale (C.S.T.): inquadra solo una parte di un ambiente circoscritto." It must be a (missing word) shot something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_(filming)).. --Barmar 13:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks again for the help. Blogs throw up lots of junk, most of which I just ignore if I'm not sure. Could you check diegesi - I may not have quite the right idea. SemperBlotto 09:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC) p.s. If you now use {{it-verb}} then I can pick up verbs needing bot conjugation automatically, and only additions to existing words need adding to the feedmo file.
  • I've never heard that word so I ignore its meaning, but Wikipedia has diegesis w:Diegesis. I'm already using the new it verb template; I've only to add to the feedme some verbs I've created before. Buona giornata. --Barmar 11:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

simple templates

{{it-verb}} and {{it-adv}} now exist. They just generate the headword and category, and have no inbuilt logic. SemperBlotto 08:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

• thanks!--Barmar 08:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
• I've also added {{it-proper noun}} (as Venere (talk • contribs) is adding quite a few) - I have also kept it simple, so you still need to add m or f. SemperBlotto 16:37, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

divulgatore

Would a good translation be whistle-blower?

• No, whistle-etc looks more similar to our spia. I have found populizer or divulger, but they don't seem popular. BTW this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_journalism explains the most common meaning of this word. I'd try a definition based on this article: "one (not necessarily a journalist) who conveys information about science(in the case a divulgatore scientifico) or other topics to a public forum or anyway to other people". I hope it is clearer now and you can find the right word. --Barmar 18:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
  • OK - we'll go with populizer. Whistle-blowers are good guys who risk their own jobs by bringing unpleasant facts to general notice - so not the same thing. SemperBlotto 21:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

it.wiktionary

in it:speciale:contributi/Barmar we found more than 5000 new pages in english. please, if you want to return there, stop. that edits was unconstructive and now we must correct them, because the italians that visit that pages and don' t understand english can' t understand the content of that page. we would like, if you'll return, a manual work, in italian. --Ilaria 11:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Su it.wiktionary tu risulti avere circa 5500 contributi, tra i quali quasi tutti consistevano nella creazione di nuovi lemmi provenienti (anzi, del tutto copiati) da en.wiktionary. Essi erano completamente in inglese e perciò io e Diuturno (che è amministratore) ne abbiamo discusso. Ci sarebbe l'opzione di cancellare tutti quei lemmi o di wikificarli manualmente. Stranamente però il tuo account non pare esistere, se clicchi sulla discussione il sistema ti dice che un account con questo nome non esiste, tuttavia le modifiche lì ci sono. SB è registrato e ha una pagina di discussione e il suo bot non ha nè pagine personali nè flag. Tu ricordi di aver editato su it.wiktionary tra il 2006 e il 2007 ?--Ilaria 12:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

No Ilaria, mai editato su it.wiktionary. Faccio qualcosina su it wikipedia http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciale:Contributi/Barmar, non so se c'entra nulla. --Barmar 12:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Accidenti, allora cosa è successo ?--Ilaria 12:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Ho risposto sulla tua userpage in Wikzionario --Barmar 12:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Ho aperto una discussione nel nostro bar: it:Wikizionario:Bar#Casi strani. Spero che qualcuno risponda. Riusciresti a registrarti su it.wiktionary, dato che l' utente non esiste ma ha fatto edit ? Tutti questi che fine farebbero ?--Ilaria 12:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Non avete un Pub, il bar inglese, dove apporre una richiesta di partecipazione alla discussione ?--Ilaria 12:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

(Sorry, I can read, but won't try to write in Italian ;-) Someone imported a number of pages from the en.wikt, with the edit history, including Barmar's edits here. Compare it:coordinata history with the history of coordinata here. They were imported to it.wikt by "Filnik" and "Nick1915". Look at it:Speciale:Registri/Importazioni, e.g. about here and you will see some of them. Robert Ullmann 12:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Ty --Ilaria 12:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Ho cambiato il titolo alla sezione, non hai commesso alcun errore, anzi, complimenti per il tuo ampliamento a en.wikt. Ti ringrazio per aver parlato in italiano con me, non capisco bene l' inglese. :) --Ilaria 13:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

misunderstanding... About a year ago, I've imported several italian words from enwikt (using the tool Special:Import -for GFDL, as you know- so you appear in the it.wikt' history page as well), inserting the template "in translation" and all-related things. Work is still in progress, and you haven't any fault :) So, this seems to be just a n00b issue ;) Best regards!--Nick1915 17:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, much ado about nothing! mi sembra che anche leggendo di là che si sia tutto chiarito, ma prossima volta però coordinatevi meglio tra di voi! ;-) --Barmar 19:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Sì, it.wiktionary è un progetto relativamente giovane: circa un anno e mezzo fa abbiamo dovuto fare una "pulizia" generale di voci (e anche di admin incompetenti), cercando colmare il vuoto del repulisti con l'inserimento di lemmi importati (paradossalmente en.wikt aveva più lemmi italiani che it.wikt). Questo però è tutto documentato negli archivi del nosto "bar". Mi scuso ancora per l'immotivata perdita di tempo!--Nick1915 23:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Reflexive past participles

Hi there again. Unlike normal past participles, we don't add the feminne and plural forms of reflexive ones - though we do note the unusual ones with other pronouns. For instance here are the Google counts for crearsi - creatosi 53,500, creatasi 157,000, creatisi 14,300 and createsi 17,900. I suppose we ought to. SemperBlotto 21:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

• Hi there! my pc caugth a virus and won't probably be repaired until the beginning of next week. I'm editing from my DH's laptop (rarely available). :-( Returning on topic, yes, I think we need to create that forms as well. --Barmar 10:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

OK - I have changed the bot input to create these for -arsi verbs, and will do the others soonish. I won't create any others retrospectively. If you come across any that need adding, just leave a note in the bot's feedme file. SemperBlotto 10:37, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

OK! --Barmar 10:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

correspondente

Is this a variant spelling of corrispondente, or just a spelling mistake (very common)? SemperBlotto 08:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

• Just a common mistake. Also that WP article about the 'Conquista della Gallia' in your sandbox is full of mistakes. I've fixed some of them, but I'm too lazy to revise the entire article. I've seen you have created hobbysto. It is not a correct Italian word; I have always heard hobbista (mf; feminine plural hobbiste). Also hobbystico has the i instead of the y, I mean hobbistico Reference http://www.demauroparavia.it/51169 & http://www.demauroparavia.it/51171. Buona giornata (my PC is still under repair :-((((() --Barmar 11:37, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
• Thanks for your input. I have deleted the bad hobby words, and had already given up on that Conquest of Gaul article. (And when your PC is fixed, keep your antivirus definitions up-to-date!). SemperBlotto 07:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
  • (The problem is that my antivirus definitions were ab-so-lu-te-ly up-to-date! Probably I caught a brand new virus.. and the first thing the darn thing did was blocking the access to the Symantec server :-((( ) --Barmar 08:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
    • update: this morning my (at this point former) technician give me the computer back saying all was fine.. well, when I arrived home I discovered nothing was changed :-( so I decided to format the pc and reinstall ALL. I've spent the whole afternoon installing programs, copying backed-up files etc and all seems to work now! :-)))))))))))--Barmar 15:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

che figata

This has been nominated for deletion. Do you have anything to add to the discussion? SemperBlotto 13:27, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

• i'd keep it http://www.oxfordparavia.it/lemmaIta10967 :-) --Barmar 17:27, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

graffiti

Hi there. What is the normal Italian word for writing on walls? Do you use the same word for rude words in toilets, and artistic creations on public walls? I think I have seen "il writing". SemperBlotto 13:46, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

• No, 'writing' is more technical and rare, we usually say 'graffiti'. Rude words in toilets are more 'scritte oscene' than graffiti, although a graffiti is not always an artistic thing. (I'll be less active until Monday, I have relatives visiting me) --Barmar 15:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

stesso

I have added an incomplete list of reflexive terms such as se stesso to this entry. Do you think they should have entries in their own right - they are so very common. SemperBlotto 22:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yes. (I've added the alternative spelling of se stesso/a) Buona giornata. --Barmar 06:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • OK. Have they all got feminine forms, and have the singular forms got plural forms? (There are quite a number of Google hits for "me stessi" and "me stesse" but I'm not sure if it has the same meaning). SemperBlotto 11:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I've added the feminine forms (that you had already created) and the list is completed. me stessi etc are probably dialectal things; ie me stessi = mi stessi (form of verb stare) because in some dialects me = mi. --Barmar 17:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

gatti

• gatta da pelare - thankless task
• qui gatta ci cova - I smell a rat
• siamo rimasti in quattro gatti - there were only a few of us left
• gatta - sex kitten
• gatto abissino <- see abissino
• gatto certosino <- see certosino
  • Thanks SB! :-) I will add them later o tomorrow. And what about tanto va la gatta al lardo, che ci lascia lo zampino? Pls give a look at this [5]

Suffixes

Hi there! If you use the {{infl}} template - the suffixes get grouped alphabetically under "-". I have changed -iere so that it gets grouped under "i". (See the listing of the Category) Cheers SemperBlotto 16:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks, I didn't know.. I've simply cut'n pasted (tomorrow I'll fix them, now I have to go) --Barmar 16:44, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Italian given names

Would you say that Alanno and Alassandro are Italian names? They were entered by user Alasdair who isn't always quite accurate. And would you classify Gianni as a given name or a diminutive? I've added Italian names, too, feeling slightly criminal because I don't know the language. It's always best that a native speaker does it. Your given name entries are a joy. Silvestro was perfect, for example:)--Makaokalani 12:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

sintolettore

Hi there. Is this more than just a car radio - i.e. a radio plus cassette, CD or MP3 player? I can't think of the word for this in English. SemperBlotto 08:52, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yes I know, but I've written car audio, not car radio... I've found this term in manufactures websites by checking the same model in It and En. --Barmar 08:58, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• I think I have understood your remark now, sorry. Maybe car audio is more an adjective than a noun, so that a better definition would be car audio system.. I've also found CD (MP3 etc) tuner, maybe this is even better. --Barmar 09:15, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• OK, I've done a bit of Googling to see how these things are decribed by the manufacturers in their English versions. sintonizzatore is a tuner (radio receiver). sintolettore doesn't get translated as a single word, but they always have a tuner plus some other feature. I'm going to go for "integrated car radio and media player". Cheers Jeff. SemperBlotto 10:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanx. Actually 'autoradio' is the catch-all term for all this stuff. --Barmar 12:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

dito etc

There is a discussion in the Tea Room about toes etc. I notice that we haven't got an Italian translation. Is it dito del piede or do you just use dito? SemperBlotto 08:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Both of them. We use 'dito del piede' when is not clear we are referring to the foot i.e. 'mi sono rotto un dito del piede' and 'dito' when 'del piede' is redundant or understood i.e. in "Il piede ha cinque dita". (thanks for smanettone) --Barmar 20:00, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

ribollita

Hi there. We had lunch at our local pizzeria today, and they had ribollita as a starter. As the weather was cold, windy and rainy we both decided to try it. However, it turned out to be just a minestrone with a few extra beans with a small piece of ciabatta on the side. Shouldn't it have lots of bread in it? Anyway, I complained to the poor waitress (Polish?) - she said "It's the only soup we've got, so it must be right". Our pizzas were good (proper Italian ones, though only the London branches of this chain have a proper forno a legna) and when the manager gave us the bill he had let us have the soup for free! Anyway, after all that, would you like to add a noun section to our entry - we've only got the verb. SemperBlotto 16:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oh ribollita! I llllove it! Yes, it must contain a lot of stale bread not just a tiny piece of it. BTW I've created the entry (without logging in..), please give a look at it. (Here VERY rainy too). --Barmar 20:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

-tore/trice adjectives

Oh dear! I think we've got a lot of these with the wrong inflection. First of all, could you confirm that accentratore is wrong. If so, I'll try to create a list of them and get them fixed. Cheers. SemperBlotto 13:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, I confirm it, it's definitely wrong; we say "tendenza accentratrice" "visione accentratrice" not "tendenza accentratore" etc. BTW I'm optimist on the number of wrong entries, IMHO most entries are correct. Cheers. OT: qui fa un freddo cane. --Barmar 15:37, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
• I've made a start. The sandbox contains all a*tore adjectives from De Mauro. Of those that we have, most we have only as nouns. Of the adjectives, four were incorrect. "b" to "z" to follow later. SemperBlotto 09:53, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Well done! Ahem.. most of them are absolutely rare (ie auguratore or affatturatore ??), if you want, I could mark the commonest (it takes a little time form me) --Barmar 10:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
    • No, I'm only generating the lists to find the ones we already have. I shall just ignore the red links. SemperBlotto 15:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC) p.s. (unrelated) What is the Italian for steak knife (knife with serrated edge) (I needed one for my "nodino di vitello - burro/salvia" yesterday but Maureen's "fegato" was melt-in-the-mouth.)
      • Ah, ok. A steak knife is simply a coltello da bistecca or a coltello da carne; if you are curious, you can find other knives names here [6] (I've had GREAT cantuccini today instead) --Barmar 15:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

preimpianto

Hmm, I have added this as a noun, but the English translation is an adjective, and the Italian usage examples I have looked at also seem to use it as an adjective (but without agreement of gender e.g. "La diagnosi preimpianto è una metodologia . . .". Should I change it? SemperBlotto 11:07, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• I've added the adjective (invariable) --Barmar 17:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

monopattino

Can this also mean skateboard? SemperBlotto 15:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

• No, I don't think so, a skateboard is called skateboard also in Italy, a monopattino is a push scooter. Could you check please montarsi la testa? --Barmar 05:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  • That 'montarsi la testa a' that you've added is not correct because this verb can't be followed by 'a'. Could you pls give me an example of it? --Barmar 13:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I misread my Italian/English dictionary - it has that meaning for (deprecated template usage) montare la testa a SemperBlotto 22:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

mostarda and senape

Could you check these please. I think it.Wiktionary has got mostarda wrong. SemperBlotto 12:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• I've changed the definition of mostarda accordingly to wikipedia and also added an image of it. And now I have to try it! (served with boiled meat) :-) --Barmar 14:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  • We've tried it and we don't like it at all. Its appearance is great but has a strange taste (awful weather today: 1° max windy and EVEN snowy 2hours ago :-( ) --Barmar 15:54, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

di

Hello. Please may I ask you to have a look at the Italian entry on this page (di) because it appears incomplete with the definitions for such a highly used word. There are other prepositions and conjunctions that seem a little sparse and some of the conjunctions don't say whether subjunctive is required. I presume the prepositions ideally need an example for each definition. I don't know enough Italian to be confident that I was right in editing them. Is this something you are aware of and is on your tasklist? I asked User:SemperBlotto and he said you would know best about the grammar. Caladon 12:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that entry (and per as well.. and many others) definitely needs to be expanded. I have included them in my to-do list and I will try to complete them as soon as possible. Cheers. --Barmar 07:39, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all the work you've done on di; it looks a lot better now. Caladon 12:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

negligee

Is the correct Italian spelling negligé or négligé?

• Hmmmm.. good question. According to Zingarelli it is négligé.. according to Hoepli negligee or negligé.. Have you tried goooooogling it? --Barmar 11:50, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Yes - but my wife might catch me! SemperBlotto 19:26, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Yep but you can reply that is *only* for the progress of human knowledge... Buon Natale, carissimo --Barmar 19:37, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

lista di nozze

Are you sure this isn't wedding list - a list of presents that the couple would like to receive when they get married? SemperBlotto 19:25, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

• No, I'm not sure but the definition of bridal registry exactly means the same thing (is it wrong maybe?) --Barmar 19:39, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
• Ah - commercialism has overtaken me. In my day it was just a list of things on paper that you distributed to friends and family (if they asked you). SemperBlotto 11:38, 26 December 2008 (UTC)