User talk:Rex Aurorum

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Again, welcome! Wyang (talk) 06:16, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Hello!

Hi, and welcome again. Great to have someone working on Indonesian entries here! We don't get many here! Can I ask you for help with some Indonesian entries, especially those in Category:Tbot entries (Indonesian) - they were made a few years ago by a bot, and need checking by knowledgeable human editors. There are 119 entries there at the moment, maybe we can slowly reduce that number. Thanks again! --Spreaderofwords (talk) 17:00, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

"Nonstandard"

Hi Ilham. I think you may be misusing the "nonstandard form of" template. This is for words that are spelled in a way that most people would consider "wrong", and that would not be appropriate in most books or newspapers. Spellings that are less common, but can still be found in a range of published material, should be labelled with the "alternative form of" template. Thank you! —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 19:55, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

bekicot and Category:Tbot entries (Indonesian)

Hey. Someone already asked you about this 3 years ago, but could you see if you can check any of the 11 (just 11 to go!) entries in Category:Tbot entries (Indonesian)? Thanks in advance. --Java Beauty (talk) 21:40, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! One less cleanup category to worry about now --Java Beauty (talk) 12:36, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

My pleasure. Rex Aurorum (talk) 13:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Banci

Can the entry banci also have the Javanese definition of the term please? It would help to make it more clear. I changed the etymology before for Indonesian after the alleged connection with the Betawi term for the dish babanci of symbolic male and female ingredients. RXerself (talk) 13:46, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

@RXerself: I just made a quick edit based on my flash reading of Javanese and Old Javanese dictionaries published by Pusat Bahasa. If there are grammatical error on my edit, you can fix it. —Rex Aurorum (talk) 18:01, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

@RXerself: @Rex Aurorum: babanci is most likely as partial reduplication of banci itself, which cause this question return to the first point. —Xbypass (talk) 08:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Yeah. Probably reduplication occurred in Betawi. I'll check Betawi dictionary in the future if they're online version. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 08:53, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

While I'm here, anyone has an example of its usage in literature for sense noun #2? RXerself (talk) 09:24, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 09:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Regarding the Indonesian words guru and bruto being doublets

Out of curiosity, I was scrolling the guru entry, and saw that in Indonesian, the word guru is a "doublet" of the word bruto. I then checked the bruto entry and saw that the Indonesian word bruto is also listed as a "doublet" of the word guru. I didn't know what a doublet is, so I looked it up. Apparently, in linguistics, a doublet is a pair of words that have different phonological forms but the same etymological root. Looking at the etymology of the word guru (from Malay, ultimately from Sanskrit) and of the word bruto (from Dutch, ultimately from Latin), I am genuinely confused as to why those two words are listed as doublets of each other (if that makes sense; I mean, I'm confused as to why they together are considered a doublet), since they have different etymological roots. Wanting to ask, I scrolled through the Page history section of both entries to find for the user who made those edits, and it happens to be you. So if I may ask, why did you write that those two are a doublet? Could you please clarify? (Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you're wrong, rather I'm genuinely confused, as I'm relatively new to linguistics). Cheers! --Bismabrj (talk) 00:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Go back farther... they share a PIE root. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:23, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

The etymology of kualitas in Indonesian

Hello, is it possible that the word kualitas was actually borrowed from Dutch kwaliteit instead of English quality? Compare it to the word universitas that was borrowed from Dutch universiteit instead of English university.

―Ekirahardian (talk) 15:17, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

According LWIM, that true (borrowed from Dutch). When 'Indonesian spelling reform' began many Dutch words replaced by English-oriented words (by spelling, in this context kwa- replaced by kua-). So, it's borrowed from three languages. From Dutch as base word. From English as spelling. From Latin as ending (Latin borrowing in this case can be ignored because it's 'bentuk terikat')

About words which have ending -itas (include universitas), i slightly confused to etymologize that type of words because it's can be borrowed by Dutch in 'earlier era' and by English in present. Do you have etymological reference about suchlike words?

―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 20:14, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Sadly I don't have such reference, I also wonder too how the 'bentuk terikat' -iteit turn into -itas. I remember discussing it with Pak Revi Soekatno in Quora here: [[1]] (Me as Naufal Rizky Rahardian)

―Ekirahardian (talk) 23:04, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

I've read about that before. They're 2 distinct events later become overlap. First, 'sentiment' to the Dutch, with effort to remove Dutch influenced in Indonesian borrowed words (at that time Latin selected as 'main' source). Second, globalization, with effort to 'globalize' Indonesian loaned words to become English-oriented. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 07:39, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

@Rex Aurorum I think there are three event that intertwined. The first one is anti-Dutch sentiment which tried to remove Dutch influenced. The second one is harmonisation effort with Standard Malay which use English as main loanword source. The third one is globalisation which resulted in English loanwords in Indonesian which included South-East Asian English. ―Xbypass (talk) 07:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

@Rex Aurorum About kua-, it is basically Dutch kwa-, but with influence of Latin and English spelling. ―Xbypass (talk) 07:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

About harmonization thing, i already knew about that, but i just aware that's take a portion in this perplexed event. About kwa- it's done on kualitas lemme. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 07:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Affixation and Etymology Section

Hello, @Rex Aurorum, I have seen your edit on merebus. On the etymology section, you edited as {{prefix|id|me-|rebus}}. As far as I know on Tata Bahasa Baku Bahasa Indonesia [Standard Grammar of Indonesian Language]‎, the standard prefix is meng-, while me- is the assimilated form of previous prefix. So, instead of {{prefix|id|me-|rebus}}, the etymology section shall be written as {{prefix|id|meng-|rebus}}, shall not it? As Wiktionary may be used by learners who are not proficient in Indonesian, the term supposed to follow the standard grammar and cause no misleading for learners. What do you think about this matter? ―Xbypass (talk) 08:41, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

In my opinion prefix in etymology should be use assimilated form. First, it's shown which assimilation occurred. Second, it's neat orderly in category. Third, prefix in etymology section already linked to main lemme. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 09:01, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

@Rex Aurorum:: As I wrote, the first thing is the entry must not mislead the reader. For people who learn Indonesian grammar and who read in detail, the editing cause no problem as they will choose meng- as prefix in merebus. The problem arise when people who has limited exposure (such as beginner learner), when they see {{prefix|id|me-|rebus}}, will choose me- instead of meng- as prefix in merebus, which is clearly a mistake in Indonesian grammar. However, I agree that assimilation has been occurred, which can be annotated in the etymology section. ―Xbypass (talk) 11:00, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Mislead? me- and meng- is 'same thing', the main difference is meng- is choosed as main form and another is variant. If the learner choose me- as prefix there's no mistake. Me- is variant of meng-. It's same as a-, ab- and abs- in English. If we choose 'older way' to annotated each assimilation in etymology section that's very redundant.―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 18:00, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

In actual me- and meng- is 'not' the same thing. The standard choose the meng- form, based on the commonest form and related to the etymology the Austronesian *maŋ actor voice affix. The other variants is never considered as different prefix. So, this information must be delivery clearly without chance to be mislead the reader. ―Xbypass (talk) 11:50, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I believe it's not misled the reader. I assumed it's analog to a-, ab-, abs- in English so it must treat is same way. Information about prefix (assimilation, rule, etc) already explained in prefixes lemmas, so need to provide explanation in each lemma. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 17:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Rex Aurorum:: Although you make English as example, the English section did not behave as your assumption. For example, accident is classified under ad- prefix, not under a-, although the a- page explained that it is a variant of ad- prefix. If you choose to treat it in the same way as English one, then it must be written as standard guide and etymological base form, ie. merebus as meng- +‎ rebus, but not as me- +‎ rebus. ―Xbypass (talk) 00:29, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Rex Aurorum:: FYI, there are variation in representing the prefix for your information. First, it can be represented as me-, which used by traditional scholars of Malay. Second, it can be represented as meng- which used by Tata Bahasa Baku Bahasa Indonesia [Standard Grammar of Indonesian Language]‎. Third, it can be represented as meN- which used by modern linguistic scholars. All of them never treat other forms, eg. meny-, as equal to those three. The other forms are always subsumed into those three, so menyetir is always written as meng- +‎ setir/meN- +‎ setir/me- +‎ setir and not meny- +‎ setir. ―Xbypass (talk) 00:29, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay, you have convinced me. I'll change the etymology in future. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 22:56, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

[b], [p], and [p̚]

Hello, @Rex Aurorum. I have seen your edit on sabda which stated [b] is standard pronounciation, while [p̚] is not. As far as I know on Tata Bahasa Baku Bahasa Indonesia [Standard Grammar of Indonesian Language] pp. 66 - 68‎, both [b] and [p] are not possible to be pronounced in final position of a suku kata (“syllable”), so they are pronounced as [p̚]. The same phenomenon is happened to [d] and [t], which both are pronounced as [t̚]. What do you think about this matter? ―Xbypass (talk) 14:15, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

1. When editing that entry i using this book as the reference [2]

2. I just read TBBI after read your message. I never read the book before. I just know there are already preferred/proper pronunciation by Pusat Bahasa.

3. Thanks for your initiation to contact me to clarifying this matter.

4. In the future I'll using TBBI as a 'guideline'.

―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 15:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

bunga

I don't see how this term could be a semantic loan from English interest, since I don't think the latter word has anything to do with flowers (or with beauty or heroes for that matter). — surjection ⟨??⟩ 23:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

wtf

chindo#Indonesian??? Bennylin (talk) 09:19, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Victor Pogadaev's "Russian-Indonesian Pocket Dictionary"

Hello, Rex Aurorum Have you ever been uploaded "Russian-Indonesian Pocket Dictionary (Kamus Saku Rusia-Indonesia)" by Victor Pogadaev (Виктор Погадаев) published by PT Gramedia Pustaka Utama to Internet Archive (archive.org)? Yuliadhi (talk) 05:43, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I never uploaded anything to Internet Archive. Why are you asking this question? ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 09:53, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Rex Aurorum

I asking you because you haven't been upload anything like Victor Pogadaev "Russian-Indonesian Pocket Dictionary (Kamus Saku Rusia-Indonesia)" to Internet Archive (archive.org). I explain this to you about Internet Archive. Internet Archive is a digital library for digitized old and new archives like videos, photos, books, etc. Yuliadhi (talk) 08:52, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Indonesian RFVs

A couple years ago you added rfv and rfv-sense templates to many Indonesian definitions. These need to be posted in the RFV forum for action to be taken. I did abad and acingara but there are a lot more in Category:Requests for verification in Indonesian entries. Click on the '+' link in "Can we verify(+) this" to get the right linking and formatting. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 16:05, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Lemma entries for Indonesian verbs

If all lemma entries for Indonesian verbs must start with meng-, then it also applied to root verbs like "makan, "tendang", "suka", etc. ? Riswija (talk) 11:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

@Riswija Ideally root verbs is the lemmas.

Some roots or base words have different meanings in their derivations, in that case we have to create definitions in their respective entries. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 12:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Why you also do those edits at menunggu? Do you think the verb is appropriate to have meng- as the lemma form? Riswija (talk) 12:22, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Non-lemmas may have definitions, not lumped to their roots.

Maybe meng- as non-lemma form is more appropriate. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 12:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we should make a double lemma entry for tunggu, after all I've already translated the quote you put in menunggu, move some synonyms, and simplified some of the meanings into one to tunggu.

I understand that you want us to follow the KBBI custom of making verbs lemma entries with the prefix meng- (and that's a must if the verb is like menongkrong, etc.) even in root verbs like tunggu, but there are also several root verbs in KBBI whose lemma entries are in their basic form (e.g. makan, minum, also suka, etc.). Even so, it's a good idea to avoid confusing readers (especially learners) on Wiktionary by lemmatize the basic form of Indonesian verbs (at least root verbs like tunggu) rather than following KBBI customs. Moreover the verb tunggu is fine if used without meng- (which is quite common in informal conversation) and not awkwardly like tongkrong

(additionally, you should write a #* when placing a quote, and try to translate it if you can) Riswija (talk) 03:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)