User talk:Alfarizi M

Welcome

Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contributions so far.

If you are unfamiliar with wiki-editing, take a look at Help:How to edit a page. It is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.

These links may help you familiarize yourself with Wiktionary:

• Entry layout (EL) is a detailed policy on Wiktionary's page formatting; all entries must conform to it. The easiest way to start off is to copy the contents of an existing same-language entry, and then adapt it to fit the entry you are creating.
• Check out Language considerations to find out more about how to edit for a particular language.
• Our Criteria for Inclusion (CFI) defines exactly which words can be added to Wiktionary; the most important part is that Wiktionary only accepts words that have been in somewhat widespread use over the course of at least a year, and citations that demonstrate usage can be asked for when there is doubt.
• If you already have some experience with editing our sister project Wikipedia, then you may find our guide for Wikipedia users useful.
• If you have any questions, bring them to Wiktionary:Information desk or ask me on my talk page.
• Whenever commenting on any discussion page, please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~) which automatically produces your username and timestamp.
• You are encouraged to add a BabelBox to your userpage to indicate your self-assessed knowledge of languages.

Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Ultimateria (talk) 01:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

definition of sasih

Thanks for @-ing me! As defined by Coolsma (1913), the word SASIH can be used to refer both 'moon' (maan) and 'month' (maand), but it's mostly used to refer to 'month'. I did found, however, the usage of sasih as "moon" in one literature from the 1980s, so I might assume that sasih as "moon" is a niche lemes definition. You might want to take a look here.

Udaradingin (talk) 18:39, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the information! How about lemes? Can this also mean "weak" other than "soft"? Alfarizi M (talk) 00:47, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, so far I've checked two dictionaries (Coolsma and Sumantri) and none of the dictionary mentioned the term to refer to 'weak' like Indonesian's lemas. I even checked this book to see any Indonesian words that enter Sundanese post-WWII and suffice to say, lemes/lemas wasn't attested in there. But there might be a possibility. Udaradingin (talk) 06:57, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Does Sundanese have reflexive and emphatic pronouns (like Indonesian diri and sendiri)? I do like to add them to {{su-personal pronouns}}. Alfarizi M (talk) 13:42, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

I think the word sorangan or nyalira might be a good contender here. Take a look at these examples: nyilakakeun nyalira ("to harm oneself") or hadé goréng ogé dulur sorangan ("Good or bad, they are still our own family"). However, the word is sometimes preceded by diri (same as Indonesian). Udaradingin (talk) 23:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Javanese personal pronoun templates

Hi Alfarizi M! Thanks for your hard work on Javanese. I just wanted to let you know what I have been getting up to with the Javanese personal pronoun tables you made. I gave {{jv-personal pronouns}} (formerly titled "Template:Javanese personal pronouns") a much-needed visual overhaul in keeping with {{ms-personal pronouns}} etc. However, I then discovered Template:Javanese casual personal pronouns and Template:Javanese polite personal pronouns, which are (as far as I can tell) simple subsets of {{jv-personal pronouns}}. The latter template is not large, so it did not seem necessary to me that we should have three personal pronoun templates for Javanese. But I probably should have checked in with you before I did this. If you have any concerns with what I did, I'm happy to revert back to the way it was and we can sort it out from there.

Also on the matter of these templates - some of the Latin-script pronoun entries are simply "form-of" entries pointing to the Carakan script-entry. If Wiktionary considers Carakan script the "primary" script, then the pronoun templates should use Carakan with Latin transliterations next to or beneath each pronoun. But if neither Carakan nor Latin is considered primary - that is, they are considered equal - the Carakan and Latin entries for the same word should mirror each other, with copies of the same content (similar to the situation in Serbo-Croatian). WT:AJV provides no guidance on this matter. What do you think should be done about this? This, that and the other (talk) 08:38, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you very much for fixing the template appearence, it's much better now! At first I didn't plan to make these three templates, but because the first template look so big and kind of not nice to look at, I decided to divide the content into two templates. Maybe I'm going to make another template that fully uses Carakan, but again thanks for fixing the template appearence! Alfarizi M (talk) 09:05, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

what is it you disagree with?

and why Suku Melayu (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Although I see that it's reasonable to lemmatize verbs that have per-, -kan, and -i into their meng- forms since these verbs are mostly always treated like that in Indonesian/Malay dictionaries, but when the transitive verb is in its "basic" form (doesn't have those verbal derivation affixes), I think it should be always lemmatized in its uninflected form, my reason is because based on my observations, some basic transitive verbs in KBBI for example makan, minum are lemmatized in their uninflected forms, so I want to make the verbs entries to be "consistent", in other words deciding which lemma form should be and which should not be for (all) transitive verbs, atleast for verbs like makan, minum, salin, tuang, etc. Alfarizi M (talk) 16:14, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

It is true that some transitive verbs are accepted to be used in their bare form without taking on a touch of colloquiality, for example makan, minum, minta. However, memakan and meminum are fully possible and frequently occurring (whereas suka does not exist in the form *menyuka, only in the form menyukai.) Indeed, you can achieve "consistency" by lemmatizing all verbs in their bare form, but at the price of creating confusion as to why Witkionary has a lemmatization scheme so different from all other works. That is, the better way to do it would be to either 1) lemmatize all transitive verbs under meng- and putting in a Usage note saying that they mostly occur in the bare form (and then we can accept that a small number of verbs will have different lemma forms from most dictionaries) 2) lemmatize only this small number of verbs under the bare form and accept the inconsistency, putting in a Usage note saying that although voice prefix are possible, it is accepted to used them without as well. I favor the latter solution, but both are much better than lemmatizing unaffected verbs under the bare form.

>And if the verb guidelines are indeed applied now, will this also affect other regional languages that have similar conjugations (e.g. Sundanese, like in the entry salin)?

I don't see how what we do for Indonesian lemmas can affect the treatment of other languages on Wiktionary. Suku Melayu (talk) 17:04, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I see. Thank you, Suku Melayu. I'll try lemmatize verbs in their meng- forms next time. Alfarizi M (talk) 00:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Nasal prefix in Sundanese

Should the nga- prefix category be changed to just N-? From an outsider’s perspective, N- + pajik = majik seems more intuitive compared to nga- + pajik, which might be mistaken for ngapajik. This could also apply to other words with phoneme-changing initial letters, such as m, d, s, t, etc. Besides, this pattern is also found in the 1985 dictionary by Sumantri et al. Udaradingin (talk) 15:03, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes, because that seems more reasonable to analyze the prefix "nga-" as "N-". But when it's attached to a monosyllabic word, is the "nga-" form still maintained? Alfarizi M (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

According to this article from the Sundanese wikipedia, the N- form turns into nge- for words with only one syllable. This can be seen in words like ngeleb ("(of water) to rise or submerge", from leb), ngebor ("to drill", from bor), ngebul ("to give off smoke", from bul/kebul?). However, there are exceptions like ngehkey ("to laugh continuously", from key). At least that's what I can find so far. Udaradingin (talk) 04:03, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Synonimity of "alur" or "salur"

Answering your question in this edit, having read their definitions on PRPM (alur, salur), it seems to me that while they can mean the same thing (i.e. a water channel), they generally refer to two different things.

"Alur" more specifically refers to a groove or a gap or depression on something through which things can flow, while "salur" is any body or object through which things can flow whether it's in digged into the ground (like a water channel) or if it's its own separate entity (like a water tube).

This explains how and why a channel through which water flows can be referred to as both an "alur" or a "salur". GinormousBuildings (talk) 18:52, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Aksara Kémara

Greetings, what do you think of this adaptation of the Khmer script at Omniglot?

It's reminiscent of Aksara Kawi, no?

Anyway, thanks for reading, -- Apisite (talk) 22:32, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Did you make it? Alfarizi M (talk) 22:37, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

No, Tom Mai did. --Apisite (talk) 22:43, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Besides, I've read a bit about the adaptation of the Khmer script for the Tampuan language, but I didn't expect the script to be adapted to the languages of Indonesia, Malaysia and perhaps the Philippines. --Apisite (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Indonesian breakage

DUUUUUDE. Your changes to Module:id-headword caused 3,000 pages to break. Let me spell this out: DO NOT DEVELOP IN THE PRODUCTION VERSION, AND ALWAYS PREVIEW YOUR RESULTS FOR ERRORS. Copy Module:id-headword to a sandbox version such as Module:User:Alfarizi M/id-headword and develop there. Also, it's critically important to include changelog messages describing what you're doing. I have rolled back all your changes over the last couple of days to fix the errors. Don't let this happen again or I will put protection on Module:id-headword. Benwing2 (talk) 07:36, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

You can do that using Module:debug/track. Add something like this:

if <bad parameter used> then
    require("Module:debug/track")("id-headword/bad-parameter")
end

Once you do this, you can view the pages with bad parameters by going to Special:WhatLinksHere/Wiktionary:Tracking/id-headword/bad-parameter. Benwing2 (talk) 07:54, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Etymology headers

If there are senses that don't share the same etymology, they must be under separate etymology headers if you have etymology sections at all. If you don't know the correct etymology, just leave the etymology out, and simply nest everything that seems to share the same etymology under the same numbered etymology header. Having an "Etymology 2" header without "Etymology 1" is simply wrong. See WT:EL for details. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:23, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for telling me this. I wasn't aware that I completely deleted the etymology 1 of sair. Alfarizi M (talk) 18:36, 21 March 2025 (UTC)