Talk:կարծեմ

Semitic

@Fay Freak: I am thinking of deriving this from Aramaic qrṣ "to accuse", with a sense development "to accuse" > "to suspect". The Aramaic is supposedly borrowed from Akkadian karṣu 'slanderer', karṣī akālu 'to slander'. We have Assyrian Neo-Aramaic ܐܵܟ݂ܹܠܩܲܪܨܵܐ (āḵēlqarṣā), Classical Syriac ܐܟܠ ܩܪܨܐ‎. What's the lemma of the qrṣ verb which I can link from here? Vahag (talk) 17:36, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: The C-stem: ܐܰܩܪܷܨ (ʾaqreṣ), but as you see probably the idiom ܐܶܟܰܠ ܩܱܪ̈ܨܶܐ (ʾekal qarṣē) / ܐܶܟܰܠ ܩܱܪܨܳܐ (ʾekal qarṣā, verb), there is a lot of formations for these idioms under ʔkl, Payne Smith, Robert (1879–1901) Thesaurus Syriacus (in Latin), Oxford: Clarendon Press, column 179, and Payne Smith, Robert (1879–1901) Thesaurus Syriacus (in Latin), Oxford: Clarendon Press, column 3756 – in that last vocalized as a singular and in Brockelmann, Carl (1928) Lexicon Syriacum (in Latin), 2nd edition, Halle: Max Niemeyer, published 1995, page 17a and Brockelmann, Carl (1928) Lexicon Syriacum (in Latin), 2nd edition, Halle: Max Niemeyer, published 1995, page 699b as a plural, and in “qrṣyn”, in The Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon Project, Cincinnati: Hebrew Union College, 1986– it is said that the singular is more common; we see anyway it is most common expression for accusatio, calumnia, maledictio, obtrectatio, so a sensible suggestion, that leaves us in awe again why so low hanging fruit are ommitted by modern philologers; also in Arabic we list قَرَّضَ (qarraḍa, “to blame”), and قَرَضَ (qaraḍa) supposedly means “piquer, blesser quelqu’un par des propos offensants”, and اِقْتَرَضَ (iqtaraḍa, “attaquer l’honneur, la réputation d’un absent”), which are likely semantic loans, not likewise understood in Arabic. Fay Freak (talk) 18:40, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. They missed it, because the meaning does not fit perfectly. Vahag (talk) 15:28, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: Are there are formal problems with կարծր (karcr) being related to that Indo-European material and fancy? If yes, one can equally derive it from ܩܰܪܣܳܐ (qarsā) or ܩܰܪܣܳܢܳܐ (qarsānā), Payne Smith, Robert (1879–1901) Thesaurus Syriacus (in Latin), Oxford: Clarendon Press, columns 3753–4; Arabic also has matching meanings in ق ر س (q-r-s). I just doubted a bit why it would not have ս (s), but it would be too easy and I found I could just ask whether the other theory is formally even worse—semantically it is. Fay Freak (talk) 19:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I haven't looked at կարծր (karcr) closely, but u-stems are usually inherited. Also, as you said, ծ requires Semitic ṣ. Vahag (talk) 15:43, 29 July 2023 (UTC)