Talk:ხაზი
Latest comment: 2 months ago by Fay Freak in topic Proto-Semitic
Proto-Semitic
[edit]@Fay_Freak: Hellope. Is Arabic خَطّ (ḵaṭṭ) Proto-Semitic? I'm trying to figure out why there exists Mingrelian ღოზი (ɣozi, “line; stripe”), ღოზუა (ɣozua, “to draw a line”), etc, whose vocalism is a regular match of Georgian so Proto-Georgian-Zan may be reconstructed (which would be a Semitic borrowing at Proto-Georgian-Zan level obviously). The Mingrelian irregular sound change of *x → ɣ is also seen in the Mingrelian doublet borrowed from Georgian. Note also Georgian ხატი (xaṭi) which must have been borrowed from another Semitic language at a later time. კვარია (talk) 16:07, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- @კვარია: Yes, from experience. The base stem (form I) verb with this meaning must have had a verbal noun of the form *ḫaṭṭ-, meaning “an act of digging or carving out” and by extension what is left over by such an act. Analogous to my claims behind وَبَلَ (wabala).
- I might have concluded this myself if the Georgian definition would not have been so generic; you can do better than the single word “icon”.
- As for Old Armenian խաչ (xačʻ, “cross”), I don’t why this is not connected to the same thing as something carved out, though I prefer a borrowing from relatives of Persian خلاشه (xâš), Persian خلاشه (xalâše), Arabic حَسَك (ḥasak) designating sticks as more likely.
- خاده (xâde) may be related to neither or either. First the Kartvelian attestations and meanings in question need to be gussied up. Fay Freak (talk) 17:27, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in Georgian ხატი (xaṭi, “icon”) at the moment, I just noted that it'd be a doublet. :) I'm comparing Georgian ხაზი (xazi, “line”) and Mingrelian ღოზი (ɣozi, “id.”). Is the list of Semitic cognates listed at ḵaṭṭ complete? Not that they'd be the input languages, but is there anything else like Eblaite or Ugaritic? კვარია (talk) 17:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- @კვარია: Ugaritic 𐎃𐎉 (ḫṭ, “rod, stake; sceptre, wand”), Akkadian 𒄑𒉺 (GIŠ.PA /ḫaṭṭum/, “id.”), a very often word, Jewish Babylonian Aramaic חִטָּא (hiṭṭā, “a line drawn with the stylus”). (arrow has nothing to do with this, equals حِظْوَة (ḥiẓwa, “arrow for playing and training; share, lot”) and حَظّ (ḥaẓẓ, “fortune, lot”), and “sin” خِطْء (ḵiṭʔ).) Sabaean 𐩭𐩷𐩷 (ḫṭṭ, “to delimit”). Fay Freak (talk) 18:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in Georgian ხატი (xaṭi, “icon”) at the moment, I just noted that it'd be a doublet. :) I'm comparing Georgian ხაზი (xazi, “line”) and Mingrelian ღოზი (ɣozi, “id.”). Is the list of Semitic cognates listed at ḵaṭṭ complete? Not that they'd be the input languages, but is there anything else like Eblaite or Ugaritic? კვარია (talk) 17:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- Mkrtčjan, N. A. (2005) Семитские языки и армянский[1] (in Russian), Yerevan: Drazark, →ISBN, pages 97–98 derives from another Arabic word (I think we have it as خَزَّ (ḵazza, “to pierce”)). Vahag (talk) 18:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- No, he means حَزَّ (ḥazza), based on his glosses from Baranov. Neither is convincing, given the isolation of these forms. Fay Freak (talk) 19:36, 2 September 2024 (UTC)