Module talk:User:Atitarev/ru-verb

To review when most regular and semi-regular verbs are complete

Type 3 Archive

Type 4 Archive

Type 5 Archive

Irregular verbs

To add - быть, стелить/стлать, клясть, isolated verbs: слыхать, видать, зиждиться, зыбиться, обуять, блистать (блиста́ю, блещу́), стебаться (стебу́сь, стеба́юсь)

дерзить, дудеть, затмить(? - затмлю), очутиться, победить (done), угнездиться, чудить, шкодить - don't have 1st person sg.

стонать (two pres. forms)

мяукает/мяучит?

мучит/мучает (мучить/мучать)

трожь, тронь, трогай? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Other verbs (or listed above) as in the Russian Wiktionary (some are done, to check):

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a-ех link examples
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a-зижд-ся link examples
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a-зыб-ся link examples
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b link examples
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/b(9) link examples
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/b(9)- link examples
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c link examples
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c"-ся "-ся link "-ся examples
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b-в link examples
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a(9)СВ link examples
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a/c((1))СВ link examples
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a/cСВ link examples
13. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a-бытьСВ link examples
14. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a-ехСВ link examples
15. Шаблон:гл_ru_^a-ех-сяСВ link examples
16. Шаблон:гл_ru_^aСВ link examples
17. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/b(9)СВ link examples
18. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/b(9)-сяСВ link examples
19. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c"-сяСВ "-сяСВ link "-сяСВ examples
20. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c((1))СВ link examples
21. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c(1)СВ link examples
22. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c-клястьСВ link examples
23. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c-клясть-сяСВ link examples
24. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/cСВ link examples
25. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b/c-сяСВ link examples
26. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b-бСВ link examples
27. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b-б-сяСВ link examples
28. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b-вСВ link examples
29. Шаблон:гл_ru_^bСВ link examples
30. Шаблон:гл_ru_^b-сяСВ link examples

Type 16

a

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_16aСВ link examples ru:выжить, ru:выплыть

c

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_16b/c link examples ru:жить, ru:плыть, ru:слыть
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_16b/c-ся-безл link examples ru:житься (impersonal)
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_16b/c(1)СВ link examples ru:пережить, ru:приплыть et al.
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_16b/cСВ link examples ru:прожить, ru:прослыть, ru:поплыть
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_16b/c-сяСВ link examples ru:прижиться, ru:расплыться, ru:ужиться, ru:нажиться

Type 15

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_15a link examples ru:стыть
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_15aXСВ link examples ru:достать, ru:застать, ru:обстать
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_15aСВ link examples ru:стать, ru:деть, ru:перестать, ru:отстать, ru:встать, ru:настать, ru:устать, ru:надеть, ru:одеть, ru:вдеть, ru:воздеть, ru:восстать, ru:задеть, ru:застрять, ru:остыть, ru:переодеть, ru:поддеть, ru:полуодеть, ru:поостыть, ru:привстать, ru:приодеть, ru:пристать, ru:продеть, ru:раздеть, ru:разодеть, ru:завять, ru:подостыть
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_15a-сяСВ link examples ru:остаться, ru:достаться, ru:одеться, ru:деться, ru:расстаться, ru:раздеться, ru:статься, ru:переодеться

Type 14

a

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_14aСВ link examples ru:выжать

b

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b link examples ru:мять, ru:жать
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b-ся link examples ru:жаться, ru:мяться
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_14*b-мСВ link examples ru:пожать, ru:помять et al.
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_14*b-сяСВ link examples ru:размяться, ru:ужаться et al.
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b/b^-сяСВ link examples ru:заняться
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b/b-й-сяСВ link examples ru:наняться
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b/b-сяСВ link examples ru:начаться
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b/c(1)-СВ link examples ru:начать
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b/cСВ link examples ru:понять, ru:занять, ru:нанять, ru:донять
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b/c'СВ link examples ru:взять

c

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_14b/c'-сяСВ link examples ru:взяться
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_14c(1)СВ link examples ru:принять
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_14c/b-сяСВ link examples ru:приняться
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_14c/c"-сяСВ "-сяСВ link "-сяСВ examples ru:подняться
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_14c/cСВ link examples ru:снять, ru:обнять, ru:поднять, ru:воспринять, ru:отнять, ru:снять
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_14c^СВ link examples irregular, only past forms (!): ru:внять, ru:объять, ru:приять
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_14c-ъСВ link examples ru:изъять, ru:подъять, ru:разъять

Type 13

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_13b link examples OK
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_13b-ся link examples OK

Type 12

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_12a link examples ru:рыть, ru:дуть, ru:ныть, ru:крыть, ru:греть, ru:брить, ru:взрыть
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_12a-ы link examples ru:выть, ru:мыть
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_12a-ы-ся link examples ru:крыться, ru:мыться, ru:бриться
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_12aСВ link examples
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_12a-сяСВ link examples

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_12b link examples ru:петь
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_12b/c link examples ru:гнить
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_12b/cСВ link examples
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_12b^-сяСВ link examples
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_12bСВ link examples

Type 11

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_11aСВ link examples OK
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_11a-сяСВ link examples OK

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b link examples OK
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b/c link examples OK
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b/c-ся -ся link -ся examples OK
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b-ся link examples OK
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_11*b/c(1)СВ link examples OK
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_11*b/c^СВ link examples OK
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_11*bСВ link examples OK
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_11*b-сяСВ link examples OK
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b/c"-сяСВ "-сяСВ link "-сяСВ examples OK
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b/c(1)СВ link examples OK
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b/cСВ link examples OK
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_11bСВ link examples OK
13. Шаблон:гл_ru_11b-сяСВ link examples OK

Type 9

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_9aСВ link examples ru:вытереть, ru:вымереть

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_9*b link examples ru:тереть, ru:переть, ru:мереть
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_9b-ся link examples ru:тереться, ru:переться
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_9*b/c(1)СВ link examples ru:умереть et al.
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_9*bСВ link examples ru:стереть, ru:оттереть, ru:подтереть
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_9*b-сяСВ link examples ru:упереться and similar
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_9b/b-сяСВ link examples missing?
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_9b/c"(1)-сяСВ "(1)-сяСВ link "(1)-сяСВ examples missing?
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_9b/c(1)СВ link examples ru:запереть
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_9bСВ link examples ru:втереть

Type 8

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_8a/bСВ link examples лечь et al. - made a separate, irregular function
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_8a-гСВ link examples OK
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_8a-кСВ link examples OK
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_8aСВ link examples OK

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/b link examples OK
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/b^ link examples OK
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/b-ся link examples OK
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/c link examples OK
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_8c/b link examples мочь, done as irregular
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_8*b/bСВ link examples ru:обжечь et al., looks OK
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/b-кСВ link examples OK
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/bСВ link examples OK
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/b-сяСВ link examples OK
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b/cСВ link examples OK
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_8b-гСВ link examples OK
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_8c/bСВ link examples see мочь

Type 7

a

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_7a link examples ru:лезть
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_7a(3)СВ link examples ru:вылезти, ru:отверзть
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_7a^ link examples ru:вырасти
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_7a-с(9)СВ link examples ru:вынести
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_7aСВ link examples ru:полезть, et al (all derived from ru:лезть)
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_7aСВ-вы link examples ru:выгрызть
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_7aСВ-вы-д link examples ru:выкрасть, ru:выпасть
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_7aСВ-д(9) link examples ru:вывести
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_7aСВ-д link examples ru:сесть et al
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_7aСВ-т(9) link examples ru:вычесть
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_7aСВ-т-ся(9) link examples see above
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_7a-сСВ link examples

b

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b link examples
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b link examples
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-д link examples
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-дX link examples
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-д-ся link examples
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-с link examples
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-с-ся link examples
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-т-ся link examples
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-т-сяX link examples
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b^ link examples
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_7bX link examples
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_7bX^ link examples
13. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b-зть link examples
14. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b-ся link examples
15. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b(9)СВ^ link examples
16. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b(9)СВ link examples
17. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b^-т-сяСВ link examples
18. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-дСВ link examples
19. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-д-сяСВ link examples
20. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/bСВ link examples
21. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-стСВ link examples
22. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-сяСВ link examples
23. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-т(9)-сяСВ link examples
24. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/b-тСВ link examples
25. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b/cСВ link examples
26. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b^СВ link examples
27. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b-дСВ link examples
28. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b-зтьСВ link examples
29. Шаблон:гл_ru_7bСВ link examples
30. Шаблон:гл_ru_7b-сяСВ link examples

Type 6

a

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°a link examples ru:жаждать, ru:страждать - no iotation on "д"
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a link examples
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a^ link examples сыпать done with additional parameters. There are alternative forms in common use, a few derivatives. Additional function for alternative forms?
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-б link examples ru:колебать, done, see колебаться
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-б-ся link examples
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-г link examples
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-г-ся link examples
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-н link examples
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-ся link examples
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-т link examples
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-т-ся link examples ru:колыхаться done
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-ш link examples
13. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°aСВ link examples Verbs with differences in the stem and other issues (to check)ru:вызвать, ru:выбрать, ru:возжаждать, ru:вывязать, ru:выждать, ru:выжрать, ru:вылизать, ru:выпахать, ru:выплясать, ru:высосать, ru:выткать, ru:перевыбрать, ru:повыдрать, ru:вырвать, ru:выдрать
14. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°a-сяСВ link examples as above
15. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a(2)^-сяСВ link examples ru:высыпаться
16. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a(3)СВ link examples
17. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-@СВ link examples
18. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a^-бСВ link examples
19. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a^СВ link examples
20. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a^-сяСВ link examples
21. Шаблон:гл_ru_6aXСВ link examples
22. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-б-сяСВ link examples
23. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-пСВ link examples
24. Шаблон:гл_ru_6aСВ link examples
25. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-сяСВ link examples
26. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-т-г-сяСВ link examples
27. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-т-иСВ link examples
28. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-тСВ link examples
29. Шаблон:гл_ru_6a-т-сяСВ link examples

b

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b link examples
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c link examples
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c- link examples
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c"-ся "-ся link "-ся examples
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c^ link examples
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c^-ся link examples
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX link examples
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX^ link examples
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX^-ся link examples
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX1^ link examples irregular ru:ссать, ru:сцать
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX-ся link examples
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c-ся link examples
13. Шаблон:гл_ru_6b link examples
14. Шаблон:гл_ru_6b^ link examples irregular ru:слать
15. Шаблон:гл_ru_6b-ся link examples
16. Шаблон:гл_ru_6b-ш link examples
17. Шаблон:гл_ru_6b-я^ link examples irregular ru:вопиять
18. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°*b/c"-сяСВ "-сяСВ link "-сяСВ examples
19. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°*b/c^ link examples
20. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°*b/c^СВ link examples
21. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c"-сяСВ "-сяСВ link "-сяСВ examples
22. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c^СВ link examples
23. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX^-сяСВ link examples
24. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX1^СВ link examples ru:обоссать, same as ru:ссать
25. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX1^-сяСВ link examples same as above
26. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cXСВ link examples
27. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cСВ link examples
28. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c-СВ link examples
29. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c-сяСВ link examples
30. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°bСВ link examples
31. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b-сяСВ link examples
32. Шаблон:гл_ru_6b^СВ link examples
33. Шаблон:гл_ru_6bСВ link examples
34. Шаблон:гл_ru_6b-я-сяСВ link examples

c

1. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c link examples
2. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c- link examples
3. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c"-ся "-ся link "-ся examples
4. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c^ link examples
5. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c^-ся link examples
6. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX link examples
7. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX^ link examples
8. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX^-ся link examples
9. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX1^ link examples
10. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX-ся link examples
11. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c-ся link examples
12. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°c link examples some irregular forms (present adverbials) ru:стонать
13. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c link examples
14. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c? link examples
15. Шаблон:гл_ru_6cX link examples
16. Шаблон:гл_ru_6cX^ link examples irregular ru:стлать, see also irregular ru:стелить
17. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-л link examples
18. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-ся link examples
19. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-т link examples
20. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-ш link examples
21. Шаблон:гл_ru_6*c^СВ link examples
22. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°*b/c"-сяСВ "-сяСВ link "-сяСВ examples
23. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°*b/c^ link examples
24. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°*b/c^СВ link examples
25. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c"-сяСВ "-сяСВ link "-сяСВ examples
26. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c^СВ link examples
27. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX^-сяСВ link examples
28. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX1^СВ link examples
29. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cX1^-сяСВ link examples
30. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cXСВ link examples
31. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/cСВ link examples
32. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c-СВ link examples
33. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°b/c-сяСВ link examples
34. Шаблон:гл_ru_6°c^СВ link examples hmm, ru:простонать, ru:застонать are regular but not ru:стонать (see above), as they are perfective and don't have irregular present adverbials
35. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c^СВ link examples
36. Шаблон:гл_ru_6cXСВ link examples
37. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-бСВ link examples
38. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-б-сяСВ link examples
39. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-ёСВ link examples
40. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-л-сяСВ link examples
41. Шаблон:гл_ru_6cСВ link examples
42. Шаблон:гл_ru_6c-сяСВ link examples

Backing up a working function (5a), trying to reduce the number of parameters

Used by видеть, увидеть, ненавидеть, слышать, выглядеть, услышать, зависеть, обидеть, выстоять, выгнать, возненавидеть, выспаться

removed backup for 5a, test OK --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:10, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

The second parameter of class 5 is probably redundant, because this is also a Proto-Slavic sound change. In late Slavic, a change occurred where *ě became *a when it was preceded by *j or by a consonant which had undergone iotation (which came from a *j, so it's the same). In Russian, *ě > e, and *a > a, so the vowel is normally "e", but after a hushing sound it will be "a". This should be a completely predictable change, you can check if you want to make sure. —CodeCat 23:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, missed your comment. I'm up to 5c. Which subtype did you mean? The comment in 5a actually fits more выгнать, which has вы́гон and вы́гна than the original about обидеть. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:02, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I meant class 5 as a whole... all the verbs with infinitive -et'/-at', present in -i-. —CodeCat 01:04, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

In видеть the present endings are attached to "вид" (without е) (ви́дит), infinitive and other forms to "ви́де". In выстоять, the present endings are attached to "высто" (no я). Does that mean that the present ending are to be chopped off? выгнать is even more complicated. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

выгнать is just irregular. I didn't mean chop the ending off, I mean to make the module decide whether to add e or a depending on the last consonant. So then just giving "ви́д" alone would be enough. —CodeCat 01:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the vowel rule. Could you show me? What's the Slovene function to determine this (if there is one). Besides, there are verbs that alternate prefixes (with or without "о") - разогнаться/разгонюсь. Maybe it's better to leave it as is? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:24, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Slovene doesn't have a function for this because you can only do this with Lua, not with templates. Slovene has two separate templates instead; one for the -ati variety and another for -eti. But because the vowel (a or e) is determined by the consonant before it, it is predictable, and when the Slovene templates are converted to Lua, they can be merged. —CodeCat 01:39, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

What are the consonants in Slovene before -ati and -eti that determine the ending? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

The same as in all other Slavic languages, the consonants that can result from iotation. In Slovene those are č, š, ž and j. —CodeCat 11:02, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps, you're right but it seems to complicated to me. In Russian the consonant "j" is part of the infinitive suffix "-ять" and the written stem is a vowel, as in "выстоять" = "высто-" + "-ять". There are many words like разогнаться/разгонюсь (in the future verb types (type 6 and above) as well, not just predictable verb stem changes but also prefix changes), so let's leave two stems, please.

In the future verb types there are also a few things that would make some changes necessary. The rigid structure of the module is great but doesn't allow for additional forms. Here are some examples:

Some reflexive verbs have dual stress forms - ru:начаться - на́чался, начался́, дать has two neuter past forms: да́ло/дало́, many verbs have dual imperative forms: ru:кашлянуть (ка́шлянь, ка́шляни), ru:высунуться (sg - 2: высунься, высунись; pl - only one: высуньтесь) (ru:закупорить, ru:выставить behave the same way), ru:варить has two stresses in the present active particple: ва́рящий/варя́щий. Can you give me some advice on this? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:36, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood. This change applies only to class 5 verbs, not to any of the other classes. As for выстоять, it is still pretty easy. It ends in a vowel, and two vowels are normally separated by a j, so this is also predictable. This means that if you know the stem высто, you know that it is followed by ять and not еть because of the final о. —CodeCat 11:49, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I got it but I also gave you the example of разогнаться. Another one is выспаться, the stem ends in a consonant "высп" but the infinitive ending is "-ать", not "-еть". The other examples for other types I listed are just for what seems like a need for additional parameters for various forms and additional forms displayed (we only have short and long adverbials). We can discuss this later when I get to those types. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

My Old Church Slavonic grammar says this about the iotation+a type of i-verbs:

Here can be mentioned the uniquely anomalous съпати 'sleep', which has a hard consonant preceding the a, but nonetheless this type of present: 3 pl. съпѧтъ, 1 sg. съплѭ; 2 sg. съпиши; imv. съпи; pres. act. part. съпѧ, съпѧшти.

So this verb is unique in Slavic and there are no other verbs like it. Unfortunately it doesn't say much about гънати (гнать) except that it's "irregular" and has the present stem жене-, not гони- ! In other words, this is really a verb of another class. However, it also mentions a separate verb, гонити, which apparently forms a pair with гънати between determined and non-determined (with verbs of motion). I don't know if Russian still has this distinction, but if not, then it would appear that this verb is actually two verbs, which merged and took some forms from гънати and some from гонити. —CodeCat 12:28, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Like all/most(?) Slavic languages, Russian has abstract and concrete verbs of motion. "гнать" is a concrete verb and "гонять" is an abstract verb. "гонять" is 1a and is easy to conjugate. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:46, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

It appears, though, that the Russian verb гнать has taken its present tense forms from Slavic *goniti, so it is really a mix of two verbs. I'm not sure where гонять then came from, but it appears that it is a new formation in Russian that did not exist in Proto-Slavic. The Russian pages ru:гонять and ru:гнать may have more but I can't read it. —CodeCat 13:01, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Russian ru:гонять is also from Proto-Slavic *goniti, so are other Slavic cognates. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:24, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

спать

Template:ru-conj-5c doesn't work well on спать (5c). The present form, which is normally stressed, has no vowel here - "сп", so 2nd person plural doesn't get an acute accent as it should: "спи́те". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:54, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Why not name the function just "спать" instead of "5b/c-спать"? There aren't multiple спать's are there? :) —CodeCat 23:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps. Just wanted to show where it belongs closer for educational purposes and to follow Zaliznyak's classifications. Maybe they should all be categorized as irregular types? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:17, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

A class that has only that one verb in it would be pretty clearly irregular, yes. —CodeCat 01:43, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I have created a few in Category:Russian_irregular_verbs. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:35, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Adding alternative forms to the display table

I'd like to add alternative forms, there is quite a few verbs that would need this.

For instance, "взять" in ("conjugations["irreg-взять"]") has an alternative form - forms["past_n2"] = "взяло́".

How do I add it to the table by checking that a form is not empty?

if forms["past_n2"] ~= "" then ", " .. forms["past_n2"] .. end ? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

The same alternatives exist for дать да́ло/дало́. Other examples (see also the above topic where I mentioned ru:кашлянуть (ка́шлянь, ка́шляни): ru:создать - со́здал, созда́л, ru:поднять - по́днял, подня́л but the reflexive ru:подняться - подня́лся, поднялся́ (!). A number of reflexive verbs have alternative stresses on the particle "ся́". I could use some help with this. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:04, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Maybe the forms that we currently store in "forms" in the module should be lists of forms, rather than just a single form. That way, adding an alternative form is a simple as adding another item to the list, rather than creating lots of new names for secondary forms. —CodeCat 12:49, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't quite understand this approach. Would this require a lot of rework? Using "conjugations["irreg-взять"]" function, could you demonstrate how this could work to add an alternative form? I used dual accent (not the best way) as a temporarily solution (i.e. forms["past_n"] = prefix .. "взя́ло́") but it won't work when the difference is about the stress but spelling.

Isn't it easier to add to the display table if an additional form (e.g. forms["past_n2"]) exists? I just had problem with the syntax, not sure how to check correctly if forms["past_n2"] is not nil or "". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:00, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

It would be a bit of work, but since many Russian verbs have alternative forms, it's easier than the alternative in the long run. What would change is that instead of writing forms["past_n"] = "something" you write forms["past_n"] = {"something"}. If there are two forms, you write forms["past_n"] = {"something1", "something2"} and you can add as many as necessary. —CodeCat 00:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I could try this but I still don't know how I would write this - the syntax. How do I check for existence of items in the list of forms["past_n"] to show only those that have values? What about transliteration?

If I use the simpler approach (my above question) how do I check if forms["past_n2"] is not nil or ""? With my poor Lua skills, this could be the way to do it. In any case, I need to add some, even if limited flexibility, so that alternative forms can be displayed. Could you show a working example, please, when you have time and know how to do it? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

It would take a bit of time. You can use your method for now, and I will convert it when I can. —CodeCat 01:18, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll need your help.

Unfortunately, my method didn't work.

In "conjugations["irreg-взять"]":

forms["past_n2"] = prefix .. "взяло́"

In "function make_table" I want to add to this:

|- 
! style="background-color:#ffffe0; text-align:left;" | [[средний род|neuter]] (<span lang="ru" class="Cyrl">оно́</span>)
| ]=] .. forms["past_n"] .. [=[

a check for existence of forms["past_n2"] and the code to display, like this(?)

if forms["past_n2"] ~= "" then ", " .. forms["past_n2"] .. end</code>

Is the syntax correct for the above? The two dots at the end are there to link to the rest of the string.

The result should probably look like this but I was getting errors, so couldn't make it work:

|- 
! style="background-color:#ffffe0; text-align:left;" | [[средний род|neuter]] (<span lang="ru" class="Cyrl">оно́</span>)
| ]=] .. forms["past_n"] .. if forms["past_n2"] ~= "" then ", " .. forms["past_n2"] .. end [=[

Should expand to "взя́ло (vzjálo), взяло́ (vzjaló)" (if forms["past_n2"] exists).

--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

What you probably want is to add the forms together before the transliterations are created. Otherwise, you end up adding the second form after the transliteration of the first. Something like forms["past_n"] = forms["past_n"] .. forms["past_n2"] ? —CodeCat 02:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's tricky but the above can result in "взя́ловзяло́ (vzjálovzjaló)" or "взя́ло, взяло́ (vzjálo, vzjaló)" with a comma, though. The transliteration section would process each element of forms[], including forms["past_n2"] (blank for most verbs), perhaps I should make "" a default value. All I'm trying to do is add to the table if it exists. The order of processing and the display can be fixed later. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:42, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I think one approach would be to create a separate table of forms that contains the transliterations. Something like forms_tr which contains the same as forms, but in Latin script and without links. The order would then be: create transliteration of each form, then link the original Russian terms, and then put multiple possible forms together with commas between them (and do the same for the transliterations). —CodeCat 02:49, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, changing the order as you suggest, sounds very good, I understand it, thank you. You still have to check for existence of elements of the array - add forms["past_n2"] (or the same for translit) only if it exists. Could you answer my syntax question please? Pseudocode (simplified, will add the translit logic later):

    -- linking both forms [[взяло|взя́ло]] (past_n) and [[взяло|взяло́]] (past_n)
    if not forms["past_n2"] then
        displayforms["past_n"] = forms["past_n"] .. ", " .. forms["past_n2"] .. "<br/>" .. translit.tr(forms["past_n"]) .. ", " .. translit.tr(forms["past_n"]) .. ", " .. translit.tr(forms["past_n2"])
    else
        displayforms["past_n"] = forms["past_n"] .. "<br/>" .. translit.tr(forms["past_n"])
    end

Having trouble with a simple check (if statement). --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

6c parameters

It seems wrong to use "и́ск" and "хохо́т" as a parameter to иска́ть and хохота́ть. The un-iotated stems "иск" and "хохо́т" are never stressed, only iotated stems can be stressed, e.g. "и́щешь", "хохо́чешь". So, "и́ск", "хохо́т" give the correct accent for present forms but they are never used in this stressed form. It seems more intuitive to make two parameters: "иск"/"и́щ", "хохот"/"хохо́ч". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:41, 4 May 2013 (UTC)