Wiktionary:Information desk/2022/May

discussion rooms: Tea room • Etym. scr. • Info desk • Beer parlour • Grease pit ← April 2022 · May 2022 · June 2022 → · (current)

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How to fix/remove anubandhas?

Would it be more appropriate to use RFD or RFV (or some other approach) to suggest the entry anubandhas (English noun, plural of anubandha) be removed? (The purported singular is redlinked, and seems to be a transliteration of अनुबंध.) Or would it be better to create an English entry for anubandha and immediately rfquote it? -- Medmunds (talk) 21:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Here are some quotations: Citations:anubandha. 98.170.164.88 22:29, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Even better. Thanks! -- Medmunds (talk) 03:22, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

How do I make a page

I would like to make a page about a minecraft a directory page — This unsigned comment was added by Peyton dodson 5 (talk • contribs) at 22:28, 3 May 2022.

See Help:Starting a new page and Wiktionary:Entry layout. 98.170.164.88 22:39, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Ok — This unsigned comment was added by Peyton dodson 5 (talk • contribs) at 22:41, 3 May 2022.

What do you mean by “directory page”?  --Lambiam 08:21, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Japanese rōmaji long vowels

Hello.

Japanese has long vowels, which are written in Japanese by using added characters. The difference between long vowels and short vowels is important and is part of how words are spelled in Japanese. It looks like Wiktionary uses Revised Hepburn to write Japanese in the Latin script. This system uses diacritics for long vowels (sometimes). In Japanese, these vowels would be written with multiple characters.

So for example, the word jōzu is typed as じょうず or "jouzu".

Sometimes when I look up a word in Japanese, I do not have convenient access to an input method allowing me to type in the Japanese writing system. If I wanted to look up the word jōzu I would type "jouzu" in the search bar, because that's how it would be written in Japanese. The results for "jouzu" are not helpful, however. Wiktionary doesn't have entries for jouzu or jozu, but if I type "jozu" in the search bar, it auto-redirects to jōzu.

Having to type "jozu" to get to a word that not actually written as "jozu", but instead is very commonly typed as "jouzu", seems like a problem.

So here are my two questions:

• Is there a page that explains how Wiktionary handles kana, rōmaji, and kanji?

• When I find words like this, is there any reason not to create a redirect to the page title with the diacritic? If I do this, is it just that simple, or is there a template or good example I should copy? I have experience with Wikipedia, if that simplifies things.

Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 05:34, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

For some terms we already have such redirects; bekijou (bekijou) redirects to bekijō, and benkyou (benkyou) redirects to benkyō. We have a true entry bonnou (bonnou) as a Rōmaji transcription of ぼんのう, which I think is preferable – a potential problem with redirects is language conflicts. For example, Romanian has a word birou, so the page cannot redirect to birō. (Funny enough, we have an entry bishoujo, but only as an English word loaned from Japanese.) WT:AJA gives information on creating Japanese language entries.  --Lambiam 15:38, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Great, thanks. Grayfell (talk) 19:56, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Vietnamese: How to add additional etymologies to a page that does not have an initial one

Hi. I want to add an additional etymology to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/v%E1%BB%87#Vietnamese but the original entry does not have one as it is probably unknown. How do I go about formatting this? TIA Gavinkwhite (talk) 05:18, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Assuming you can have multiple tabs open in your browser:

1. Open tabs on the pages âm lượng and vệ.
2. On each, click edit next to the heading Vietnamese and go to the edit windows.
3. In the edit window for âm lượng you'll see an etymology section with a header in the form ===Etymology===.
4. Add a similarly styled section below the header ==Vietnamese== in the edit window for vệ (with the appropriate etymology).
5. Preview the result (click Show preview), and make any necessary improvements until you are satisfied.
6. Publish the changes.

If, as you say, the etymology is probably unknown, make sure that the tentative character of any proposed theory is clearly indicated.  --Lambiam 14:29, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi. The page vệ has an existing noun definition of edge, side but with no etymology. What I want to do is add an etymology for a different meaning of vệ, and an additional definition and derived terms. To do this normally I would change ===Etymology=== in the existing entry to ===Etymology 1=== and add ===Etymology 2=== but the original entry does not have an etymology section. Thanks. Gavinkwhite (talk) 14:47, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

I could do this by e.g. creating a blank or unknown ===Etymology 1=== section for vệ - edge, side or simply ignoring the fact that there is no etymology section for the original entry and creating the first one for the new meaning. I haven't come across anything like this before so don't know how to format it. Thanks. Gavinkwhite (talk) 15:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Ok, so I have created

===Etymology 1===

(This etymology is missing or incomplete. Please add to it, or discuss it at the Etymology scriptorium.)

Is this [and the rest of the page] correct? Gavinkwhite (talk) 02:25, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

It looks good to me. 70.172.194.25 02:27, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Adding quotations from Targum Onkelus

Hi! Lately I've been adding quotations from the Targum Onkelos to Aramaic terms, such as דתאה. For this purpose I used the RQ:Tanach template, since the Targum is a translation of the Bible in Aramaic. But I was wondering - is there a template specific for Targumic citations? And if there is no such template - could it be created? (such a template may be identical to RQ:Tanach, with an additional note that the citation is from the Targum, and not the original Hebrew text). Thanks! Cymelo (talk) 07:41, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Can't add references

I have added a new word "Mothparja" but can't add references to itFAAHS (talk) 07:57, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@FAAHS: see WT:Entry layout for all the things you should have been adding, the lack of which caused your entry to be deleted. This is a dictionary, so explanations of where a word came from should be in an etymology section, and there should be a headword, followed by the definition. Since Mothparja is a specific, named place it should be under a Proper noun header, with a headword template appropriate for a proper noun.

I've looked through the abuse filter logs, and it looks like the "reference" you kept trying to add was a link to an old revision of a Wikipedia article. For one thing, wikis aren't acceptable references for our purposes, and for the other, you don't link to websites using the {{quote-book}}} template.

Also, we don't require references like Wikipedia does. See WT:Criteria for inclusion for the kind of verification we would want. The village name in English doesn't occur in Google Books at all, and is so rare in the rest of Google that it might not pass our attestation requirements. It might be easier to add it as a Sindhi entry. Chuck Entz (talk) 09:42, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Is it possible to change my username?

I don't want to change it at the moment - I am just wondering in theory if it would be possible to change my username, but keep my previous edits/contributions under the new username? DaveyLiverpool (talk) 23:38, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

@DaveyLiverpool: Yes. See m:Changing_username. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:12, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

That covers it. Thank you very much, Justin. DaveyLiverpool (talk) 01:07, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

an instance of nonsense

Hello, Mister/Miss; in the entry of the word 'singaw', which is only available in the Tagalog language as a noun yet, the present definition of its third sense is confusing logically and grammatically. I am fluent in Tagalog, but I do not know about the meaning, I reckon that the noun vapor there must have been dew or some close synonym of it and that the word form there must have been the preposition from. Please either remove or edit it.

Thank you. A Mediocre Lifetime Student (talk) 06:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

取りあえず should have multiple definitions?

On the page for 取りあえず, "at once, first of all, for the time being" are all marked under the same definition. But to me it seems like these definitions are unrelated: shouldn't they be marked as separate definitions? Ianhasausername (talk) 15:47, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Middle English alternate forms

Many Middle English words had many, many alternate spellings. What is Wiktionary's policy towards their inclusion?

For instance, the MEC lists maistresse as having two 'primary' forms (maistresse and maistres) and then lists between ten and fifteen alternate forms, depending on how you count them (maistris(e, maisteres, maistires(se, mastres(s(e, mastras, mastrisse, masteres, mastiresse, mestres(se, mestris). Assuming all three satisfy Wiktionary's attestation requirements, should all three of mastres, mastress, and mastresse be included? Winthrop23 (talk) 18:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

We include all attestable forms; @Hazarasp may provide more detail as the main editor of Middle English. J3133 (talk) 09:18, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Entry templates

I used to be able to use entry templates when adding new definitions. But now when I click on one of the "These entry templates may help when adding words:" it just opens up a blank page instead of one that is prefilled with appropriate headers and templates. My new definitions are not as good as they used to be! I am using Firefox 100.0.2. Is there a way to get these working again? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:31, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

@Graeme Bartlett This feature is broken because Equinox deleted Template:new en adj, Template:new en noun, etc. These used to contain the text that would be preloaded. I don't understand why they were deleted though; it may have been a mistake. 70.172.194.25 07:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, 70.172.194.25, I test recreated Template:new en noun, and it works again! Equinox I hope you don't mind if these come back. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:50, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Vietnamese: How to Code the Etymology Section

Hi. I'd like to create etymological information for Sino-Vietnamese words that also show their non-Sino-Vietnamese doublets. So far, I have only found this to work the other way round. E.g. for the entry thêu, the etymology section reads:

Non-Sino-Vietnamese reading of Chinese 鍬 (SV: thiêu).

Coded: {vi-etym-sino|鍬||hv=n|thiêu}.

I would like to reverse this. E.g. for the entry lạp, I would like to create the following text for Etymology 1:

Sino-Vietnamese word from 粒 (Non-Sino-Vietnamese reading: lép).

Is this possible other than just writing the bracketed information as normal text?

Currently this information can only be found by clicking the SV character and going to a new page, and non-SV readings are usually added in a See also or similar additional section without the explicit connection to the entry word.

Also, as well as hv=n in the code above, I found hv=y in the etymology section for viết.

Non-Sino-Vietnamese reading of Chinese 筆 (“to write, pen/pencil”, SV: bút).

{vi-etym-sino|筆|to write]], pen/pencil|hv=y|bút|}.

What does hv=y [and hv=n for that matter] mean here?

Are there any resources that cover all the possible codes for etymology entries for Vietnamese words? I haven't been able to find this information searching in Wiktionary or on Google. TIA. — This unsigned comment was added by Gavinkwhite (talk • contribs) at 07:03, 30 May 2022.

You can see the documentation for the {{vi-etym-sino}} template at Template:vi-etym-sino. From a very quick look I did not see any option currently available to add a bracketed non-Sino-Vietnamese reading, but you can do that manually for now. The documentation explains what hv does at least, and the various other parameters. 70.172.194.25 07:08, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! Gavinkwhite (talk) 08:02, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Ukrainian pronunciation

Are double affricates in Ukrainian such as цц pronounced like [tːs] or [tsː] ? Dngweh2s (talk) 02:25, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

@Dngweh2s: [tsː] --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Where to find 4000 word families

I used to see a list of 4000 word families (English) in wikidictionary a couple of months ago, but I could not find the link anymore. Could anyone help me with the link? Thanks a lot! — This unsigned comment was added by Alanguonz (talk • contribs) at 04:03, 31 May 2022.

Could it be simple:Wiktionary:BNC spoken freq? Or something else listed on Wiktionary:Frequency lists? 98.170.164.88 04:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Or Wiktionary:Statistics? Andrew Sheedy (talk) 05:57, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Thanks a lot, this is really helpful! Highly appreciate! Alanguonz (talk) 23:28, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Is there an easy way for me to download this word family list in a reasonable format? Thanks a lot! Alanguonz (talk) 23:43, 1 June 2022 (UTC)