User talk:GareginRA

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Vahag (talk) 13:17, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Not so welcome, I guess. GareginRA (talk) 00:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Armenian transliteration

The transliteration is automatic everywhere and reflects Wiktionary:Armenian transliteration. If you want to change the transliteration system you will have to discuss it there. --Vahag (talk) 19:42, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

The tr= attribute is supposed to let you adjust the transliteration but it doesn't work for Armenian, even though it works for other languages. GareginRA (talk) 19:47, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I know. Armenian does not need adjustment. The manual transliteration is overridden. --Vahag (talk) 20:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

That is a very totalitarian approach, comrade. Surely I wouldn't bother if it were right in the first place. Also, exceptions do exist in all fields of life. GareginRA (talk) 20:16, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I was like you once. I wish an enlightened despot had told me back then how to do things. It would have saved me a lot of time. You will understand one day. Vahag (talk) 20:23, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I see my mistake now. But it doesn't resolve the issue with broken attributes.

PS. The only problem with Wiktionary:Armenian transliteration is that օ is transliterated as ō, with a line, even though it's more of an o than ո is, in my understanding. GareginRA (talk) 20:46, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

There is no issue of broken parameters. As I told you many times, that behaviour of this and all other templates is deliberate. Armenian is added to a special list of languages for which the manual transliteration is overridden. When you added a manual transliteration, pilaster appeared in Category:Terms with manual transliterations different from the automated ones/hy, and I cleaned it up.

The transliteration system is scientific, well-documented and used extensively in serious linguistic literature, e.g. in all works of Hrach Martirosyan. No changes are needed at this stage. Vahag (talk) 20:55, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

OK, I take my word back. But it is obvious that the accepted rules of transliteration are not perfect and, as we can see, lead to a lot of confusion. It is common knowledge that ո in the beginning of a word or a stem is pronounced like "vo", yet the undiscerning machine ignores that rule, whereas people who speak Armenian but do not know the alphabet might not know that. On the other hand, transliterating it as "vo" is also a mistake, since it corresponds to վո. GareginRA (talk) 22:16, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

You are confusing the transliteration with pronunciation. The transliteration reversibly converts the foreign script into the Latin one. The pronunciation is given elsewhere. --Vahag (talk) 20:51, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm not confusing. I'm just thinking about the purpose of transliteration in the first place... Anyway, overriding tr= is a bad idea. It's better to correct others' mistakes than to make your own that no one could correct. Like, there could be words that use unlisted characters. GareginRA (talk) 00:17, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm inclining towards the idea that initial Ո represents a role of a digraph... See, transliterations are mainly used for letter-to-letter loaning as an alternative to pronunciation loaning. But it doesn't make sense to use an Armenian word with that invisible /v/ cut out. Are there any occurrences or linguistic data where ո at the start of a word actually represents /o/? What we do here is like representing Latin 'x' not as 'կս' or 'քս' (or anything like that) but just 'ս'. There is no practical requirement for such strictness. Imagine writing a formal letter in Armenian using only Latin letters. Would you write 'oskor' for ոսկոր? GareginRA (talk) 22:28, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Template:hy-decl-pron-pl

Please prove that միմյանց and իրար are plural in modern Armenian․ They are not declined like plurals. EANC.net tags them as singular. --Vahag (talk) 07:25, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

My grammar book said so. I will write down the excerpt here a little later. (I probably need to make a digital version of it somehow.) I think though, that they are declensed as nouns with -նք ending, which are plural, right? GareginRA (talk) 11:13, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

1. Փոխադարձ դերանունները եզակի թիվ և ուղղական ու ներգոյական հոլովներ չունեն։ Սրանց սեռական, տրական և հայցական հոլովները ձևով նույնն են: [this is why your additions on the template don't make sense to me]

2. Փոխադարձ դերանունները նախադասության մեջ լինում են միայն լրացում։

Above this there is a declension table identical to one here[1], only with a word Հոգնակի over it.

The authors of the book are Eduard Aghayan and Hovhannes Barseghyan. GareginRA (talk) 12:28, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Here is a better proof. Both -անց (inflected form of nominative -անք) and -եար (etymon of -ար) are endings indicating plurality. GareginRA (talk) 19:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

միմեանց (mimeancʻ) and իրեար (irear) are indeed plurals in Old Armenian and are inflected like plurals. In modern Armenian the historical pluralness of միմյանց (mimyancʻ) and իրար (irar) is obscured. The only reason your outdated Soviet grammar calls these plural is the tradition inherited from grammars of Old Armenian. Therefore Template:hy-decl-pron-pl is not needed. I am deleting it. Vahag (talk) 21:17, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Idk, it makes total sense to me that they're plural. I think you need(ed) to consult actual linguists before doing that. Also, your argument about the tradition is made up. GareginRA (talk) 21:36, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan Here is a Wikipedia page[2] on reciprocal pronouns. They substitute plural reflective pronouns. In fact, take a look at Distribution chapter. It is very clear that they are plural and cannot be singular.GareginRA (talk) 21:45, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Your edits and attitude

You continue making mistakes. Please don't create dialectal terms, don't do etymologies, don't change inflection tables and transliteration schemes. You know yet too little about Armenian or Wiktionary. It's OK not to know stuff, but it is not OK to plough through with aggressive and ignorant edits, disregarding advice from more experienced editors. --Vahag (talk) 11:24, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

I will contribute as much as I can, whenever there is missing info. Your corrections are welcome. “Don’t do anything” is not a valid advice for this kind of website. If you want to prove me wrong, provide real argumentation instead of labeling me. You still haven’t answered on my corrections on իրարու and reciprocal pronouns. GareginRA (talk) 13:49, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

I have blocked you for one day for repeatedly adding incorrect content in a language you do not know well, even after I asked you to stick to simpler edits. The last ones were the ones at -անք and -ան. Because you are not a native speaker and you do not know historical Armenian linguistics, you have a difficulty of separating inflectional endings and suffixes from word stems. You see suffixes where even a hy-1 level would know there is none. I am tired of cleaning up after you, explaining your mistakes but you not even trying to understand what you did wrong and wasting my time with inane "counterarguments". If you continue your disruptive edits, I will have to increase the duration of your block the next time.

As for your complaints about reciprocal pronouns, the number of declension cases and the transliteration scheme, I have decided not to continue arguing with you as it is a waste of time. I have found that you are incapable of understanding arguments either because of ignorance or bad faith.

When you are back, please also try to provide three independent quotations at Wiktionary:Requests_for_verification/Non-English#խոյարած. I do not believe this entry you created is attestable per WT:CFI. --Vahag (talk) 00:00, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

LOL. Guess what? I am a native speaker. Armenian is my first language, even though I lack vocabulary. That's why I didn't put it at the top.
Secondly, my last edit on -ան is common knowledge. You need to open grammar rules sometimes. Inflectional endings are considered suffixes by linguistic norms. If you want, you can separate them for those particular entries. That would make sense, actually. But deleting an existing definition is not what admins should do.
Thirdly, I wouldn't have added խոյարած if I hadn't encountered it in a text following with helpless search for its meaning until I had to ask my dad. I added it in case someone happens to be in my place. I don't see a reason to delete that page, but if you think there is one, I don't care.
Fourthly. "...either because of ignorance or bad faith" What is that even supposed to mean??? If you lack argumentation for your rollbacks, that's not my problem, but yours.
Fifthly. Your policies of rendition sometimes go against traditional Armenian grammar norms, primarily considering inflection tables. Then you say that I'm trying to plough my way through the website? Ridiculous.
Alright, frankly, I'm also tired of arguing with you. You seem too arrogant to even consider retreat. That means a search for truth is absent from your goals of dispute. Which makes disputing with you pointless. GareginRA (talk) 00:29, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Unblock appeal

This blocked user is asking that their block be reviewed:

GareginRA (block log • active blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • abuse filter log • user creation log • change block settings • unblock)

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Request reason:

I was blocked because I contributed too much in the Armenian section. I consider this as privileges abuse by administrator User:Vahagn Petrosyan, which has already taken place and described on Wiktionary talk:Administrators. My arguments were provided fully, when in need, at following pages: User talk:GareginRA, User talk:Vahagn Petrosyan, Talk:իրար, Template_talk:hy-decl-noun. I have also lost my right to edit entries in other languages, even though no objections have taken place there.