User talk:Antonklroberts

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Apisite (talk) 10:30, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Something's not right

At ܡܘܫܟܠܐ you have it set up to look like there are three different words:

1. ܡܘܼܫܟܸܠܵܐ A masculine noun with no plural
2. ܡܘܼܫܟܸܠܹ̈ܐ A plural-only noun with no gender
3. ܡܵܫܵܟܸܠ̈ Another plural-only noun with no gender and with a spelling that doesn't match the page name (maybe you left out a letter?)

You have these showing all on the same line.

If you were really trying to show a masculine noun that has two different plurals, you should have used a single {{head}} template with the first plural in a |g= parameter and the second in a |g2= parameter

If you were trying to show three separate items, you should have had each of the {{head}} templates with an empty line and a definition line after it and an empty line between those and the next {{head}} template.

If plurals have singular forms, they should have had "noun form" instead of "noun" in the {{head}} template, and the definition should be something like "plural of" with a link to the singular. The best way to do this is with templates such as {{plural of}} or {{inflection of}}. The fact that the vowels aren't part of the entry name complicates things, but the same is true of many of the other Semitic languages.

I don't know the language, so I'm sure I'm missing something. Perhaps @Fenakhay or @Metaknowledge can help. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:37, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

ܘܠܝܐ

I think you've gone wrong somewhere here. You seem to have put the word for England here in both Syriac and Latin script instead of the one for Wales. Copy-paste error or the like I'm assuming? 37.110.218.43 14:13, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz You're the first reasonably active admin I thought of...any idea what the hell is going on here for me? When I preview this page in edit mode the section title functions as a link as normal, but on the actual page it's showing up as merely plain text. 37.110.218.43 14:17, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@37.110.218.43 I noticed the error anglia vs walia. I just fixed it up thank you for bringing it to my attention Antonklroberts (talk) 14:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Garshuni Arabic

Do you know anything about Garshuni Arabic? --Apisite (talk) 06:52, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

If so, then how much? --Apisite (talk) 07:02, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't know much about Garshuni Arabic I just know that it's Arabic but with the Syriac script and it uses extra characters like 'ܜ' equivalent to 'ظ' which we don't use in Assyrian. Antonklroberts (talk) 10:38, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. I asked because I wondered what the Arabic translations of literature by The Church of Almighty God could look like in Garshuni. --Apisite (talk) 23:24, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Translating The Little Lotus Story

What do you think of this new fairy tale in several languages, including Arabic?

Would you like it translated into Assyrian Neo-Aramaic?

That could be an interesting way to introduce anyone to the Syriac abjad. --Apisite (talk) 06:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

International Dark Sky Week

How could the term "International Dark Sky Week" be into Assyrian Neo-Aramaic translated?

How about the phrase "discover the night" being into Assyrian Neo-Aramaic translated? --Apisite (talk) 04:15, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

International Dark Sky Week: "ܫܲܒ݂ܘܼܥܵܐ ܬܹܒ݂ܹܝܠܵܝܵܐ ܕܫܡܲܝܵܐ ܚܸܫܟܵܢܵܐ" (šawuʿā tewēlāyā d-šmayyā ḵiškānā)

Discover the night: "ܚܒܘܿܪܹܗ ܠܲܝܠܹܐ" (ḵboreh layle) --Antonklroberts (talk) 13:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. What entries could be made from the phrases? --Apisite (talk) 09:59, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

For example, what lemma form is the non-lemma word ܚܒܘܿܪܹܗ (ḥbōrēh) in this case? --Apisite (talk) 11:15, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Ahh yes, ܚܵܒܹܪ is the lemma form, i'll make it now Antonklroberts (talk) 13:10, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Wiktionary:About Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

Hi! We're discussing how to best deal with Assyrian Neo-Aramaic romanizations on Wiktionary_talk:About_Assyrian_Neo-Aramaic. Since you're one of the most active editors, it would be great if you could join the discussion! Thank you! Sartma (talk) 11:19, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

What has your local community thought about your work on Assyrian Neo-Aramaic here in Wiktionary, if at all? --Apisite (talk) 02:57, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

ܐܬܘܪܝ

Hi Anton, are you able to help us out by contributing at Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Non-English#ܐܬܘܪܝ to explain why you believe this entry should be deleted? Thanks! This, that and the other (talk) 10:09, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

It's a least not a lemma form that means Assyrian. Assyrian is either ܐܫܘܪܝܐ or ܐܬܘܪܝܐ. I might keep it however because ܐܵܬܘܿܪܝܼ is a female given name in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic Antonklroberts (talk) 11:30, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Tools to verify IPA

Hey Anton - thanks so much for all the work you're doing on wiktionary and your awesome tiktoks as well. I was taking a look at the IPA and noticed sometimes it's off. For example shouldn't

[ʃæx.ləpː] instead be [ʃax.lɪp:]? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%DC%AB%DC%9A%DC%A0%DC%A6

[ninːwɛ] instead be [nɪn:wɛ]? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%DC%A2%DC%9D%DC%A2%DC%98%DC%90?

I don't know how you're proofreading the IPA but you can test what it sounds like by plugging it into here http://ipa-reader.xyz/. It uses AWS Polly under the hood. It doesn't seem to care whether you include stress marks like the period, colon, etc... I recommend using Joanna's voice because that's the default most people use for Polly implementations.

Idk how "correct" this is but I've also used dictionary.com to look for english words that have similar sounds to assyrian words then I click "SHOW IPA" to get an idea of where to go.

Additionally if you wanted to test what the IPA should look like you can use this webapp which transliterates from assyrian to IPA and also latin https://assyrianphonetics.github.io/. It too is inaccurate but in different spots from yours which is why it can be useful for your proofing. I'd ignore the "Read Aloud" feature since it's mostly for test purposes and not as good as Polly's. This webapp is by Sargis Yonan who did the native iOS/macOS assyrian keyboard and Assyiran wordle https://mamlal.com. The code for the transliterator is here https://github.com/assyrian-Corpus-Project/syr2ipa/blob/main/syr2ipa.js.

I'm building some software using the wiktionary API which might make use of some of your work. I'm hyped for all the new lemmas you're adding and for the improved accuracy of the IPA. I'll be sure to drop you a note once I've fine tuned everything. 2600:1010:B028:C2F4:F96D:1C15:258C:9E1A 07:27, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

ܡܘܫܟܠܐ

Shlama, Anton

I've reverted this edit because you didn't explain the reasonings for it. Since:

• it's important to note in which time period the word was borrowed;
• the word is pronounced differently in Iraq and in Syria, with Syrians pronouncing the final 'a' sound slightly more frontal;
• the plural has multiple spellings, some being more conservative of the Arabic spelling (with the medial aleph);
• since this is a foreign word, the diacritics in the transliteration (múškĭla) help with the foreign phonology (antepenultimate stress and an open, short 'i');
• synonyms are generally helpful.

Can you please provide summaries in the future for any such changes? --334a (talk) 16:14, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Assyrian verbs

Hi, Anton!

• The form you're labelling as the "present participle" (like on this edit) is actually the "gerund" (called the "infinitive" in some grammars, though that's not wholly accurate). The (masculine) active participle is actually the form you're giving as the headword. I think the confusion on your part is due to English gerunds and active participles having the same form (both end in "-ing" but they function differently grammatically). Participles, both active and passive, are more like adjectival nouns and are inflected for gender and number:

	active participle	passive participle	gerund (always masculine)
m	ܣܵܩܸܕ݂	ܣܩܝܼܕ݂ܵܐ	ܣܩܵܕ݂ܵܐ
f	ܣܵܩܕ݂ܵܐ	ܣܩܝܼܕ݂ܬܵܐ
p	(ܢ)ܼܣܵܩܕ݂ܝ	ܣܩܝܼܕܹ̈ܐ

• Except for lamadh-aleph (III-weak) roots, the second vowel you're giving in the masculine active participle, zlama qashya, is historically, phonologically, and probably more commonly written as a zlama pshiqa. You should consider at least mentioning it alongside the other form (if not replace it entirely).
• You might want to mention the conjugation stem ("peal, pael, aphel, quad") in the headword line and within the inflection section somewhere. Compare form-I, -II, -III, etc. of Arabic verbs (example here) or first conjugation, second conjugation, etc. of Latin ones (example here).
• The gerund and passive participles are essentially always regular and don't need to be mentioned in the headword anyway (especially if you're not giving the feminine/plural forms and not labelling the masculine form). I would just leave those out and make space for the conjugation stem.

Cheers! --334a (talk) 06:35, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

The lemmas ܐܘܐ‎, ܐܝܐ‎, and ܐܗܐ‎

Hi, @Antonklroberts! I am a native English speaker who has (of late) developed an interest in the multiform varieties of Aramaic language. I have a couple of questions which I would like to address to yourself.

Since you created the page for ܐܗܐ, I wanted to confer with you regarding these words, about which I have been curious for some time, and have several questions. the first of these pertains to etymology. Have you any sense what the origin of these terms might be, in terms of a possible etymology? One Arabic speaking fellow indicated to me that ܐܘܐ‎ and ܐܝܐ might derive respectively from the Arabic expressions ها هو hā hwa ("here he is") or ها هي hā hiya ("here she is"), or connative expressions to these within Aramaic itself. What is your opinion of this idea? If not , what might you conceive the origin to be? i am of the understanding that the various NENA dialects have done alot of borrowing from the Iranic languages (the western ones...Farsi and Kurdish, in particular, certainly not including Dari or Pashto!) Secondly, I am wondering how wide the distribution of these is across the field of Aramaic dialects. Is there any cognate terms to these in any variety of Western Aramaic, or are they only used within Eastern Aramaic dialects? Are there connate terms within Hebrew, or Arabic? I am under the assumption that by the term "Assyrian Neo-Aramaic", you mean "Suret" (ܣܘܪܝܬ), am I correct in so thinking?

Thank you for your efforts towards preserving the knowledge of Aramaic. These languages are so very endangered within the current political climate of the Middle East, that I feel it to be of tremendous importance that such preservation be achieved without too much delay. Cheers! 144.121.24.154 16:52, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

501st-1000th most common words in 2014 Assyrian Aramaic Bible

i added some less common words from the bible to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:ColumbaBush/sandbox in case you wanted to check them out. i left these out of https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Module_talk:aii-translit to reduce the loading time of the talk page ColumbaBush (talk) 08:03, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

trust but verify

i spent a few mins today to teach myself a bit of lua so i can tweak some stuff here and there... i added these tests cases https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Module:Syrc-entryname/testcases and the counterpart logic here https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Module:Syrc-entryname

lmk if i went overboard, we can always remove stuff

also i went mainly off richard ishida's work here https://r12a.github.io/scripts/syrc/aii.html (this is legit) ColumbaBush (talk) 09:11, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Understanding pronunciation differences

Hey Anton - Our language is rapidly making it's way up to the top of this chart https://kaikki.org/dictionary/index.html thanks to all the awesome work you're doing 🎉

Using these two as an example:

ܥܡܝܼܪܵܐ ܝܘܸܢ ܠܲܐܟ݂ܵܐ

ˁmīrā ìwen laˀḵā

 

ܡܵܫܵܚܲܛ ܝܼܘܸܢ ܐܵܢܵܐ ܒܐܲܪܥܵܐ

māšāḥaṭ īwen ānā b-arˁā

 

In the 1st example you're saying that the lack of initial khwasa affects the pronunciation of the preceding word? I'm new to our language and wanted to better understand the concept, do you mind going into a bit of detail to explain it to me like I'm five? ColumbaBush (talk) 09:16, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

If I write these two bolden phrases accoring to the IPA it should sound a little like this

1. [ʕə.miːrɑːj‿wɪn.]

2. [mɑːʃɑːxatˤ.‿ʔiːwɪn.]

The first sentence were technically saying ʿmīrāy wen. The ì demontrates that it's attached towards the end of the previous word and not so much on the word itself. I hope that makes more sense! :) Antonklroberts (talk) 12:17, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining it clearly, I'll take a manual IPA transcription over an automated latin transliteration any time ColumbaBush (talk) 04:18, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi there i'm just replying to your “ì should drop according to language instructor, applying hyphen delimited suffixing to be consistent with hyphen delimited bdul prefixing, Antonklroberts if you disagree, let's discuss/improve”

While this is almost a great idea it creates a problem. ܐܵܢܵܐ ܝܘܸܢ as ānā-wen makes it seems like it's pronounced [ʕɑːnɑː‿wɪn.] where as it's actually [ʕɑːnɑːj‿wɪn.].

Although it dosen't do much it still effects the vowel sound of the previous word therefor it still needs ì to indicate that Antonklroberts (talk) 08:03, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I just showed this to the instructor who has authored several language curriculum books. He said it's [ʕɑːnɑː‿wɪn.] not [ʕɑːnɑːj‿wɪn.] but maybe the pronunciation differs regionally.

If you had a source for this rule about correct pronunciation, please let me know, I'd love to pass it onto him.

That said, I trust your judgement, let's keep your reversion. ColumbaBush (talk) 23:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Actually man - do you want me to tweak the transliterator so it does "ānā-ìwen" instead of "ānā ìwen"? ColumbaBush (talk) 00:32, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I like that idea too but once again they're too separate words, joining them with a hyphen is a little messy and inconsistent. the ì itself is joining the pronunication of the two words together Antonklroberts (talk) 01:02, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks for letting me know ColumbaBush (talk) 09:11, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

What markers to use for unvocalized spelling?

Hey Anton - I just saw your tiktok abt unvocalized spelling where you said to leave out all markers but to use siyameh. Is that the only one, or are there any others from these 16 markers https://r12a.github.io/scripts/syrc/aii.html#index_cchars_other that should be included? ColumbaBush (talk) 10:14, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

No way that's so good, I had no idea you watched my tiktoks! ahaha

The siyameh is pretty much it, ocassionally I also write the ‘syriac feminine dot’ but that's just up to the writer.

The reason why I ensist with the siyameh is because 99% of the time it's the same letters singular and plural making it hard to disambuate.

E.g. ܚܒܘܫܐ and ܚܒܘܫܐ you wouldn't know if i'm writing “ḥabbušā / apple” or “ḥabbušē / apples”. Antonklroberts (talk) 02:57, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

ofc you're famous 😎 and the manner in which you explain stuff in a casual setting/style as opposed to something more formal and classroom-like makes it inviting and not intimidating to watch/understand

thanks for confirming the usage of markers ColumbaBush (talk) 12:18, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

improving the transliterator

hey anton i was trying to understand what this edit would do https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3Aaii-translit&diff=71667281&oldid=71660877 but since the replacements are padded with "#" i don't think it would really have any effect

i took a leap of faith and think you were trying to fix this issue - if a yudh+khwasa is sandwiched between two voweless atutas then it should be an i not an ī UNLESS it's a "to be" like ܗܲܡܸܢܝܼܬܘܿܢ (hamminītōn)

if you see something is off you can always create a failing test case and explain in the edit summary why it shouldn't fail. im happy to help where i can, i just need the ask to be crystal clear in order to fix it ColumbaBush (talk) 21:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

ܥܕܬܐ

(Also @ColumbaBush, Shuraya) How could the word ܥܕܬܐ be in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic pronounced? -- Apisite (talk) 10:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much for adding the definition.

I think the transliteration ʿēdtā and the classical syriac IPA is pretty close to how I've heard it pronounced ColumbaBush (talk) 13:00, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

قدير

(Also @ColumbaBush, Kristian Lahdo, Shuraya, 334a) Do the Arabic term قدير and its root have any cognates in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic? -- Apisite (talk) 03:50, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I could not find any in modern or classical Syriac & it is not loaned either. Shuraya (talk) 08:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

@Shuraya: I asked because of what the word almighty means in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic. (Don't forget the other translation requests as well.) --Apisite (talk) 08:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

ܛܝܡܐ

(Also @ColumbaBush, Kristian Lahdo, Shuraya, 334a) I added {{aii-noun}} to the entry ܛܝܡܐ. -- Apisite (talk) 04:29, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

The New Year in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

(Also @ColumbaBush, Kristian Lahdo, Shuraya, 334a) How would the phrase happy New Year be translated into Assyrian Neo-Aramaic? -- Apisite (talk) 22:17, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

I’ve added 3 common ways it’s said in the translations! Shuraya (talk) 22:24, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

try clicking these links: ܥܹܐܕ݂ܘܿܟ݂ ܒܪܝܼܟ݂ܵܐ‎ (ˁēḏōḵ brīḵāˀ‎) ܪܹܝܫ ܫܲܢ݇ܬܵܐ (rēš šattā) ܐܲܟܝܼܬܘܼ (akītū)

also a suggestion - we should consider asking questions on this talk page and mentioning all the contributors only if it's high urgency (ex. recent edit to template or module causing everything to break)

that way we can differentiate between something being super critical vs less urgent ColumbaBush (talk) 22:38, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

ܢܝܙܟܐ

Are there any Assyrian Neo-Aramaic terms based on the Classical Syriac term ܢܝܙܟܐ?

Otherwise, could any Assyrian Neo-Aramaic translations be added in the English entries through that Classical Syriac entry? -- Apisite (talk) 21:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Also, what about ܣܲܪܢܵܐ (sarnā)? --Apisite (talk) 09:26, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

@ColumbaBush What about the aforementioned word ܣܲܪܢܵܐ (sarnā)? --Apisite (talk) 09:28, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

yeah both words exist in assyrian

• https://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9958&language=id
• https://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9128&language=id and https://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=24496&language=id

i agree we should prioritize adding assyrian terms based on classical syriac especially if the page already exists w/ a classical syriac section

also in the future, maybe drop a message on the talk page for those terms - that might be a more fitting spot than anton's talk page ColumbaBush (talk) 22:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

ܛܠܘܡܐ

Speaking of the entry ܛܠܘܡܐ, could the following sentence be added there? It's as follows:

"Those who can make you absurd can make you unjust."

Thanks for reading. -- Apisite (talk) 07:41, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

deleting old verb templates

shlama anton - awesome work splitting up the verb templates into the respective g-stem, c-stem, d-stem conjugations - this has been so helpful for me in better understanding our language

i wasnt sure if you were aware but you can verify if the deleted templates are still used anywhere via https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?search=hastemplate%3Aaii-conj-verb%2FB4i ColumbaBush (talk) 02:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much, really encouraging to here that you're learning more and that we're helping each other understand more.

That's exactly what I've been using to determine which pages need to be edited and verified. I'm not 100% finished it but I'm getting through splitting all of the templates. Antonklroberts (talk) 03:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

sounds good 😃 - i was like 95% sure that's what you were doing, but thought there was a possibility you were running a script/tool of some of sort

yeah splitting up the templates was kind of eye-opening for me bc i didnt know anything abt stems but now when someone says stuff like "akhel" vs "ma'khil" i can "see" it. ColumbaBush (talk) 03:52, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Please stop misspelling your language

I keep finding your entries in Category:Assyrian Neo-Aramaic entries with incorrect language header. Notice that it's "Aramaic", not "Aramiac". It's an easy mistake to make, but this is a dictionary- so correct spelling matters. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 05:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Deleted templates

Hi, I've deleted the subpages of aii-conj-verb that you nominated for deletion except Template:aii-conj-verb/B4i because a few pages still use it. Can you please fix the links? Also, in the future, use {{d}} for obsolete and orphaned templates rather than {{rfd}}. Ultimateria (talk) 06:00, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Never mind, it's deleted now. See the talk page. Ultimateria (talk) 03:36, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you

hey anton - as the year is coming to a close i just wanted to thank you for everything you've contributed the past 3 years

it's crazy to think how far things have come since you started editing - the growing number of words, the increasing depth of annotations (ipa, verb conjugations, noun inflections, examples/quotations), etc...

this project is such huge deal for standardizing our language and driving up its literacy rate - definitely grateful for all your work ColumbaBush (talk) 19:26, 13 December 2024 (UTC)