Talk:nigger cock

RFV discussion: November–December 2020

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nigger cock

Rfv-sense "large penis". Current citations do not support sense. If this fails, the entry should be deleted, as the other sense is clearly SOP.__Gamren (talk) 21:52, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 22:56, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

RFD discussion: October–December 2020

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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nigger cock

SOP. J3133 (talk) 10:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@J3133. Poor me, now they want to take away my nigger cock ;-) But in all seriousness, there are two defined terms. One refers to an actual black man's penis. Another definition of the word can refer to even a white man's penis. Two separate, unlike entities. -- Dentonius (talk) 10:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I believe the quotations of sense 2 are all referring literally to the phallus of a dark-skinned man, so we're reduced to deciding whether the cultural knowledge that such men are well-endowed belongs in a dictionary. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 11:23, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Vox Sciurorum, not all black men's penises are big but when they say nigger cock, they may have in mind either a black penis or a big one. Without the cultural knowledge, a foreigner might not know this unless they had the same stereotypes where they come from. -- Dentonius (talk) 11:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@J3133. Moreover, how else should a foreigner know that nigger (“black”) + cock (“penis”) = big penis ? -- Dentonius (talk) 11:12, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Dentonius: How is your entry in accordance with your proposal? J3133 (talk) 11:24, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@J3133, why do people think, say, and do different things? These are mysteries we may never solve. It is the human condition. -- Dentonius (talk) 11:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

That is an absurd reponse to avoid your hypocrisy. It is obvious why and I will not waste more time. J3133 (talk) 11:49, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Yup. Someone is clearly trying to prove a point. —Mahāgaja · talk 11:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Mahagaja, not at all. I make meaningful conributions here every day. I did not write the CFI. I raised a point elsewhere and it was rejected. I accept the community process. Why shouldn't I be allowed to create a valid entry which belongs here? It's the one stereotype we have which isn't actually half bad to have. -- Dentonius (talk) 11:59, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

It is very obvious that this entry was created to prove a point. Claiming otherwise will not make it less obvious. J3133 (talk) 12:04, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@J3133, what exactly does that have to do with the validity of the entry? -- Dentonius (talk) 12:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

• Delete. Not dictionary material. If kept, black cock has the same size implication, and black penis would too. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 12:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Vox Sciurorum, that would be a very roundabout way for a foreigner to find out what the word means. They see nigger cock in a book. They go to Wiktionary: Query nigger. Query cock. Hopefully query black cock to ascertain the extra meaning which apparently, as it stands, is a bird. -- Dentonius (talk) 12:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Vox Sciurorum, just to add more to what I'm saying: all these words should be allowed to exist: black cock, black dick, nigger dick, nigger cock since reading the definitions of their parts separately wouldn't allow you to understand that we're not only talking about a dark penis but a big one. Last I checked, this dictionary is okay with synonyms. Catch my drift? -- Dentonius (talk) 13:02, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Vox Sciurorum, as a guy who watches porn, black dick or black cock don't necessarily imply big. There's a whole category called BBC, big black cock to let you know that the black cock they're talking about is big. The word nigger paired with cock alludes to the worst imagery of the Black man as a savage with an animal-like phallus. This is why nigger cock on its own can denote a big black cock. -- Dentonius (talk) 13:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

There's also a stereotype that all black people love watermelon. What dictionary entry would you suggest for that? Chuck Entz (talk) 14:04, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi again, @Chuck Entz. This Wikipedia article, Stereotypes of African Americans, breaks down the stereotypes. But I can't think of a word for the doer. If I do, I'll reply with the answer. ;-) -- Dentonius (talk) 14:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz, by the way, who doesn't love watermelons? They're great, aren't they? ;-) -- Dentonius (talk) 14:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

• Keep. Not sum of parts. The parts alone produce: nigger (“black”) + cock (“penis”) = black penis. However, the term nigger cock can denote "big penis" in addition. The term has a long history in published works. -- Dentonius (talk) 14:59, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
• Comment: if deleted, nigger cocks should also probably be deleted --DannyS712 (talk) 17:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
• Delete speedily. Created in bad faith. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 17:18, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge, I'm just curious about a few things:

• Why does the intention of the person creating an entry matter and not just the entry itself? If, for example, a person created the English word "the" in bad faith. Should it also be deleted?
• How do we know nigger killer wasn't created in bad faith? Why are we okay with nigger killers but not nigger cocks?

-- Dentonius (talk) 17:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

To further clarify, the word nigger killer reads as a threat to me and my kind to end our lives every time I see it. -- Dentonius (talk) 17:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I would like my objection recorded to the thinking of the non-Black Wiktionarians who have commented here. My view is either we keep nigger killer (talk) and nigger cock (talk) or we delete both nigger killer (talk) and nigger cock (talk). To do otherwise, would be to demonstrate the hypocrisy of some non-Black Wiktionarians (who presently outnumber Black Wiktionarians by a large margin). Non-Black Wiktionarians love to claim that racist terms don't offend them (easy for them to say, actually). They also love to claim that Wiktionary is "all words in all languages." Prior to its deletion, nigger cock made reference to the word cuck (near-homonym with the word cock) which taps into the primordial fear of White men that their wives will be pleasured by a nigger cock unbeknownst to them. To help future readers to understand the community's decision regarding nigger cock, a screenshot with its citations and defined terms is hereby provided. This is my final comment on this topic. I await your decision but I'm not optimistic that you'll abide by your own standards (as has happened several times throughout history). -- Dentonius (talk) 05:58, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

There is no data on users' races -- I've never even seen a user mention their own race on their user page. Your unsubstantiated complaints about demographics are poorly disguised complaints that people disagree with you. Ultimateria (talk) 17:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

@Ultimateria, I'm inclined to agree. Kind of like a hissy-fit, right? Are you black, by the way? Is anybody here black? -- Dentonius (my politics | talk) 17:14, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm not. I really don't know about anyone else. Ultimateria (talk) 17:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm Jewish, so I'm Semitic, and hence not Black either. Khemehekis (talk) 23:30, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Are you black? (Implied: if not, your input is disallowed.) Meanwhile, at User_talk:Languageseeker, wanting to vote keep on #挽回面子 "but I don't know a word of Mandarin Chinese and they'd call me out on that". Equinox ◑ 02:45, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

@Equinox. She said I didn't know the demographics of the people here. And she was right. I assumed that many people here aren't Black based on the little information I've gleaned about them, but I can't really know. How can I know? I can ask. -- Dentonius (my politics | talk) 04:14, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

@Equinox, and in case you're wondering what set me off. It was you actually. I believed you when you said that we shouldn't squander volunteer resources on useless entries. When I saw nigger killer, I thought okay, stuff like that's bound to happen here. When I saw who the creator was, and that it was you, it made me very upset. You of all people. -- Dentonius (my politics | talk) 05:46, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• Speedily delete, per Metaknowledge. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 08:07, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
• Speedily delete, also per Metaknowledge. For the record Dentonius, you have not interacted with the members of this community long enough to pass that kind of judgement. It saddens me that this discussion, which should have been strictly on the basis of linguistics, has taken this turn. --Robbie SWE (talk) 10:02, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
• Speedily delete, per Metaknowledge. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
• Not particularly bothered by that entry, but for the record, I think Dentonius is a troll. (And for transparency purposes, I'm PUC.) 2A02:2788:A6:935:CC83:6DDB:B93D:CB66 12:48, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

  I don't think troll is the right term. They made a very good start to improving our coverage of Jamaican Creole, they were participating just fine in discussions, and they were starting to get the hang of things- but they hit a bump and went off into the weeds. I get the feeling that they're sincere at some level and not just doing things to get a reaction. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:29, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

  Yes, you're probably right. I take that term back. That said, I'm really not a fan of their attitude. 2A02:2788:A6:935:F076:C388:8FC2:B319 08:50, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• Keep the second definition (a big schlong) as idiomatic, mark the first definition with "Literally" or "Other than as idiom" and then write : See nxgger, cock. Khemehekis (talk) 02:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Keep, obviously not sum of parts. I can't determine if the first two given citations actually support the given definition without more context, and the third clearly has more meaning than just "big penis", but that's a matter for RFV.__Gamren (talk) 18:27, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Delete as SOP. If sense 2 is kept, let's RFV it (and likely delete it there) because all three citations currently under the "big cock" sense clearly refer to black cock: one says the person looking for "nigger cock" was looking for "nigger meat", one says the person who likes "nigger cock" likes "black cock", and the last says the person who has a "nigger cock" has "nigger blood". - -sche (discuss) 17:09, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Resolved: deleted per RFV.__Gamren (talk) 21:40, 14 December 2020 (UTC)