Appendix talk:Old Irish class B I present verbs
Add topicLatest comment: 3 years ago by Mellohi! in topic McCone's subgroups
McCone's subgroups
[edit]It turns out that what Stifter says McCone's subgroups are and what McCone says McCone's subgroups are, are two different things. What the Appendix currently says is what Stifter says. What McCone (1987: 29–31) actually says is this:
- S1a-i: the basic pattern, exemplified by beirid.
- S1a-ii: the reithid type: like S1a-i when the stem is stressed, but with depalatalization of the stem-final consonant when the stem vowel is unstressed.
- S1a-iii: the stem vowel changes from e to ai before palatalized g or d, exemplified by laigid and saidid.
- S1a-iv: the stem vowel changes from i to e before nonpalatalized consonants, exemplified by ibid and lingid
- S1b: the stem vowel is a or o and the stem-final consonant is depalatalized except in the third-person (and sometimes second-person) singular conjunct, exemplified by canaid, gonaid, maraid, and orcaid.
- S1c: = Thurneysen's B III.
So Stifter's S1b is McCone's S1a-ii, Stifter's S1c is McCone's S1b, and Stifter's S1d is McCone's S1c. @Mellohi!, I'm very tempted to simply describe these subgroups without labeling them, since the only two authors who use this system can't even agree with each other on the labels. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:16, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- Did you know that The Early Irish Verb had a second edition published in 1997? McCone actually changed his mind between editions and adopted what you know as Stifter's scheme (S1b reithid, S1c canaid, S1d for B III), which was what Stifter was talking about. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:47, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: because I forgot to ping. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:48, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Mellohi!: No, I didn't know that. I only have the first edition. Does the second edition fix other shortcomings of the first edition, like the lack of an index and bibliography? At any rate, I still feel like it's easier for the reader if we just write subsections for verbs with depalatalization and verbs with divergent vocalism without using McCone's labels. —Mahāgaja · talk 17:04, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: 2nd edition does have an index of verb forms cited at the end, but no index for English terminology. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:24, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Mellohi!: No, I didn't know that. I only have the first edition. Does the second edition fix other shortcomings of the first edition, like the lack of an index and bibliography? At any rate, I still feel like it's easier for the reader if we just write subsections for verbs with depalatalization and verbs with divergent vocalism without using McCone's labels. —Mahāgaja · talk 17:04, 17 April 2021 (UTC)