User talk:Mojshahmiri

خربزه

Hi. What is your source for this etymology? Also of other Proto-Germanic derivations added by you. --Vahag (talk) 10:12, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

I see that you continue adding Proto-Germanic etymologies to Persian entries. I have blocked you for adding nonsense/gibberish until you explain on your talk page what source you use or, if you are doing original research, how could have Persian borrowed words from Proto-Germanic. --Vahag (talk) 11:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I am an academic historian and linguist from Iran and for more than 20 years I'm researching about Anatolian hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_hypothesis (look at my map showing the phonological differences between Indo-European languages and the possible paths of migrations based on the Anatolian hypothesis.)

About Persian xarbuza, we read in another wiktionary page: karpuz#Turkish From Ottoman Turkish قارپوز‎ (qārpūz, “melon”), from Persian خربز‎ (xarboz, “melon”) and likely influenced by Greek καρπός (karpós, “fruit, grain”), both from Ancient Greek καρπός (karpós, “fruit, grain, produce”), from Proto-Indo-European *kerp- (“pluck, harvest”), from *(s)ker- (“to cut”). Cognate with English harvest.

Or look at this wiktionary entry: calabash > from Persian خربزه‎ (xarboza, xarboze, “melon”), from Ancient Greek καρπός (karpós).

What does it mean? Is the Persian word from Greek? k>x (Grimm's law) & p>b (Verner's law) are Germanic sound shifts, not Iranian. Mojshahmiri (talk) 12:25, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

@Victar, JohnC5, ZxxZxxZ, Calak, can you please address this. I am busy at the moment. --Vahag (talk) 14:27, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

That etymology strikes me as rather impossible. --Victar (talk) 16:36, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

These may just be normal sound shifts for borrowings into Persian. I find a Middle Persian borrowing from Proto-Germanic highly improbable. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 16:43, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting his etymologies, @AryamanA. Utter nonsense to the point of vandalism. --Victar (talk) 17:06, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

PIE (and PII) *k > *x is a common Iranian sound shift. First element of Persian خربزه (xarboze) (i.e. خر (xar)) should be related to first element of Persian خرمن (xarman). For p > b see آب (âb).--Calak (talk) 17:41, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

@Calak, that etymology is complete nonsense from Irman. Deleting. --Victar (talk) 20:44, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

While we are on it and we see the amount of Iranian nonsense etymologies spilled, maybe you want to make the pages جیب (see ES 12/2017) and ببر more congruent with the Semitic, @Victar. They have been ignored long-long. Fay Freak (talk) 01:36, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

"These may just be normal sound shifts for borrowings into Persian." I can't believe this amount of ignorance in wiktionary! What do you know about the history that you say "a Middle Persian borrowing from Proto-Germanic highly improbable"? Did you know Goths were one of the major peoples who lived under Sasanian rule? https://www.sasanika.org -Mojshahmiri (talk) 17:50, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Is it allowed to create new sounds laws, like *k > *x in Iranian here? Please someone explains it for me why there should be this sound shift in Iranian when "k" is not in cluster?! What about *s>z (Verner's law)?! Iranian and Germanic are not the same languages. Mojshahmiri (talk) 18:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

There are environments where *k does become aspirated, i.e. *kH, *kC, and even #KVNCʰ, but the larger point is the PIE word you're trying to derive this word from is fanciful conjecture, not suited for Wiktionary. --Victar (talk) 20:44, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

This fanciful conjecture has been mentioned in all other Wiktionary pages, like karpuz#Turkish and calabash, it is really funny that you publish a ridiculous folk etymology and possibility of t>x sound change in Persian!!! but not the most possible theory, the problem is that you think it is just a Persian word but the fact is that similar words exist in several other languages and Persian can't be certainly the source of all of them.

[Melon]: Persian xarbuza, Arabic xirbiz, Kurdish xeruze, Sanskrit xarbuja, Hindi xarbuza, Urdu xarbuza, Armenain xarbzak, Georgian xaburzaki

[Watermelon]: Kumyk xarbuz, Polish harbuz, Romanian harbuz, Russian arbuz, Lithuanian arbuzas, Latvian arbuz, Estonian arbuus, Finnish arbuusi, Azeri qarpiz, Crimean Tatar qarpiz, Kazakh qarpiz, Turkmen garpyz, Bashkir qarbuz, Serbo-Croatian karpuza, Turkish karpuz, Greek karpouzia, Albanian karpuz, Bulgarian karpuz

[Pumpkin]: Ukrainian harbuz, Belarusian harbuz, Arabic qara, Catalan carabassa, German kurbis, Latvian kirbis, Estonian korvits, Finnish kurpitsa, Spanish calabaza, Asturian calabaza, French calebasse, Basque kalabaza, Tagalog kalabasa, Hiligaynon kalabasa, Swedish kalebass, West Frisian klabats, Luxembourgish Kalbass, Galician cabaza, Portuguese cabaça, Japanese kabocha -Mojshahmiri (talk) 06:54, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I recommend you read {{R:ira:SI|pages=438-445|section=The Water-Melon}}. It goes into the spread of the word, along with the fruit itself, from Persian to China. --Victar (talk) 05:18, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

What about European words for Pumpkin (Ukrainian harbuz, Belarusian harbuz, Catalan carabassa, German kurbis, ...)? We are talking about the etymology of this word, what we already read in wiktionary:

1. From Middle Persian hlbyck (xarbīzag, “watermelon”).

Nonsense, this word is never attested in any Middle Persian text but it has been reconstructed from assumed loanwords in other languages, like Armenian.

2. Middle Persian hl (xar, “ass, donkey”) and (bōǰīnā, “cucumber”)

This is an absolute nonsense, "donkey-cucumber" means nothing, and the only similarity between "bizag" and "bojinah" is the initial letter.

3. A reshaping of Sanskrit त्रपुस (trapusa, “the fruit of colocynth”) by popular etymology. Forms with t- are attested in Persian: تربز‎ (tarboze), تربز‎ (tarboz, “watermelon”).

I can't understand how it can be related to the etymology of this word, do you suggest t>x sound change in Persian?!! -Mojshahmiri (talk) 08:32, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

1. It is attested. See here, page 144 with references for the place of attestation.

2. "Donkey" is often found in plant names, e.g. Persian خرخیار (xar-xiyār, “exploding cucumber”, literally “donkey-cucumber”) (compare Armenian իշ-ա-վարունգ (iš-a-varung, “idem”, literally “donkey-cucumber”). In Armenian from էշ (ēš, “donkey”) the following plant names: իշ-ա-խոռն (iš-a-xoṙn, “restharrow”), իշ-ա-ծոթրին (iš-a-cotʻrin, “Thymus capitatus”), իշ-ա-կաթնուկ (iš-a-katʻnuk, “Euphorbia”), իշ-ա-մառոլ (iš-a-maṙol, “Sonchus”), իշ-կոտեմ (iš-kotem, “Rezeda”) etc. {{R:ku:Cabolov|pages=450-451|vol=II}} adduces other compounds with xar and explains its unusual meaning in the compounds as "big".

3. "Reshaping" does not mean "regular sound change". Read Folk etymology.

Look, you're wasting everyone's time. Your theories are fringe, unsubstantiated and have no place on Wiktionary. I am unblocking you with the expectation that you will not add your originally-researched etymologies anymore. If you do, you will be blocked again. --Vahag (talk) 11:08, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I should contact admins of Wiktionary, those who know absolutely nothing about Persian, shouldn't impose their views on Persian words and revert the edits of Persian linguists, you even don't know what "Vajename-ye pahlavi" means and consider it as a reference for a Middle Persian word! Or you use a calque of Arabic قثاءالحمار in Modern Persian and unrelated Armenian words, for Middle Persian etymology! -Mojshahmiri (talk) 12:18, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

@Vahag, Mojshahmiri does not seem to have learned his lesson and is back to adding unsourced spurious etymologies. --Victar (talk) 15:54, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Vahag can read in his talk page why you revert my edits, the only reason is that you were banned in my forum, please stop this childish behavior. There are no source for more than 90 percent of Persian etymologies, should I remove all of them? Mojshahmiri (talk) 17:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Mojshahmiri, I have blocked you for one week for adding patently incorrect etymologies after a warning, for not willing to learn and for wasting others' time when called out on your mistakes. I am inclined to permanently block you because in my experience users like you come to Wiktionary only for pushing their fringe agenda, and when prevented, do not stick around to do anything useful. Nevertheless, you have one last chance to become a productive contributor. If you return and continue adding false original research, without an additional warning you will be permanently blocked for disrupting the project. --Vahag (talk) 19:03, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

It is clear that you believe in ancient Kurgan hypothesis but the fact is that modern scholars believe in Anatolian hypothesis: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/science/indo-european-languages-originated-in-anatolia-analysis-suggests.html

I will publish my other works about Anatolian hypothesis in Wikipedia and use them as source in Wiktionary, this is my map which has been published in the wiki page of Anatolian hypothesis:

I think it will solve my problem here. Mojshahmiri (talk) 19:39, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

We do not accept Wikipedia as a source. Also, Wikipedia does not "publish" anything. You have simply edited the page without no one reverting you so far. Anyway, leave this subject already. You are not going to convince anyone here to accept your theories. --Vahag (talk) 19:51, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Ok, I will totally ignore Iranian languages in Wiktionary and just focus on the works of the famous German linguist Theo Vennemann and other ones about Semitic words in Proto-Germanic and vice versa, I have their books. Mojshahmiri (talk) 20:59, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

ROFL. Yep, this guy isn't going to learn. Take note that he's also banned from forum.wordreference.com. He really should have a perma ban slapped on him. --Victar (talk) 20:27, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

You did all you could do here and probably also wordreference for banning me, your ten years of hatred against me should be really recorded in the Guinness! I want to use sources for my all edits, what is your problem? Mojshahmiri (talk) 20:59, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Mojshahmiri, since you promised to continue adding fringe theories when you are back, and Vennemann's theories are fringe, I have permanently blocked you from editing on Wiktionary. --Vahag (talk) 21:10, 8 August 2018 (UTC)