Talk:cafe'

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It has three cites, but one of them is non-durable and another one is a pseudo-mention talking about the use of (deprecated template usage) cafe' in Dutch. That leaves only one 1 legitimate cite, IMO. --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Delete. Just think of all the junk to which this would open the door! --Hekaheka (talk) 06:29, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Google does not distinguish "cafe'" from "cafe" or "café", which makes searching very tedious. I waded through four hundred hits to find the two citations in the entry. There are, however, four million Usenet hits of those three spellings, which makes me confident this one can be cited. (Even if only one hit in four hundred is valid, there'll be ten thousand valid hits.) If anyone is going to propose it be deleted, I request that they do that first, before anyone goes to the trouble of citing it. - -sche (discuss) 08:41, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I would much rather it be cited, because IMO we only have one legitimate cite for it. Granted, I don't know how that could be achieved. --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 00:47, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Cited. Two of the citations are by Jeremy Henty (2004-05-11 and 2004-06-08) and two are by David Carrigan (2004-06-07 and 2012-05-26), so they only count as 2 total rather than 4, but then there's a citation by LeAnne (2004-08-18), which makes 3, and they span more than a year (because David Carrigan's latest one is 2012, while the rest are 2004). - -sche (discuss) 00:38, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Amazing! Thank you --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:37, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Why don't we have a {{rare mis-spellings}} template, or a {{lazy, deliberate mis-spellings}} template? Dbfirs 08:38, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Ohmigod, what's next? Find citations for attache'? No doubt somebody has used that too, somewhere. --Hekaheka (talk) 14:50, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I tried to cite Citations:caffe' and found only one citation, so I doubt many apostrophic terms are sufficiently well attested to be included. I don't see why you fear that slippery slope, anyway. Unlike misspellings, these alternative spellings are not made by mistake but are consciously chosen (several of the citations, like Citations:caffe''s, make that clear); why should we exclude them? We include eatin' and 'alf, which also use apostrophes (in those cases, to represent omitted letters rather than accents). Anyway, that's a discussion for RFD, not RFV. - -sche (discuss) 21:10, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I've no objection to use of the "eye-dialect" template. Perhaps we should really create a template for "silly deliberate mis-spelling of" if we are going to have lots of these. Dbfirs 09:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Does it make any difference that all the citations seem to be for places with Café in their name? Siuenti (talk) 16:34, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, they are all citation for Cafe' or Cafe`, and only the Dutch one (that I don't understand) is for cafe'. Dbfirs 09:26, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

We do not have entries for Restaurant#English or Café#English but instead handle proper names like "Podunk Greek Restaurant" in restaurant#English. The citations of specific capitalized Cafe's are likewise still citations of cafe'... unless you think we should create Restaurant#English, Café#English, etc. - -sche (discuss) 07:06, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Isn't this spelling just use of the word without knowledge of how to place the proper é -- like someone who writes café in a text message on a cell phone? If I am too busy typing to look up the proper letter code, I will often insert a ' after a letter or word to indicate a special case. I might or might not get back to it to correct it later. And I know I'm not the only one who does this.--Jacecar (talk) 01:01, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Passed. As Equinox said about an entry or two when he was WT:RFV's principal tender: yep, I supplied the citations for this entry, but I'm also apparently the only person who tends WT:RFV. - -sche (discuss) 21:00, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

RFD discussion: June–July 2014

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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cafe'

This seems to be a misspelling of "café". Or a typographical variant not worth keeping. Determining relative frequency seems hard, since google:"cafe'" does not really contrain the search, and finds "café", "cafe", etc. I would bet on this being a rare misspelling or form not worth keeping. --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:43, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Delete. -Cloudcuckoolander (talk) 22:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Occam's razor suggests it's an intentional spelling rather than a misspelling, since 'e', the apostrophe and the space bar are all so far apart it's implausible someone would strike them in the right order by accident if they only meant to strike the 'e' and space bar. Is it worth including as a spelling / typographical variant? Hmm... it seems similar to Mʳ: users of it are approximating something that they don't have quite the right tools to represent in what from a prescriptivist perspective would be the ideal way (in this case, users lack an easily-accessible 'é' key; in the case of Mʳ, users lack the ability to use HTML tags like <sup>). This is the only instance of e' being used for é I was able to find 3+ uses of, and it is a use I've seen fairly often in ASCII e-mails and the like; whether that makes it more includable (since the variation is nowhere near systematic, the way variation of 'u' and 'v' was in the past)* or less includable (since it's a one-off) is again hard to say. Weak keep. - -sche (discuss) 22:53, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

*Postscript: I realise we keep old u-vs-v variants, and do so in part because alternation of two characters which are now separate and used for different things is not something that can be predicted accurately by human users (especially non-native speakers) or site functions like the site search and "Did you mean ...?" function, and each form may be a word in a foreign language, which prevents the use of redirects. That applies as much to e-vs-'-vs-e'-vs-é as to u-vs-v: e' and é normally mean different things in English (contrast the cafés located on Broad Street [are expensive] with the cafe's located on Broad Street [and it opens at 10 am]), and both strings might be found in other languages (café already is attested in another language, viz. French; cafe' might be attested with some meaning in some of the many world languages that use apostrophes as letters). I'm upgrading my vote to a full keep. - -sche (discuss) 23:11, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it a misspelling. It is simply the use of an apostrophe in place of the accent mark, which is unavailable on most English keyboards. I've seen this done a lot in Italian, but don't see it much in English. --WikiTiki89 23:15, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I have seen it and other typographic kludges (in English) with some foreign names. For example, Go"del from people who can't type Gödel and don't know about Goedel. I've also seen G\"odel, which is just the TeX formatting code. Choor monster (talk) 12:44, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Haha, it's like SAMPA's revenge. I hope we can delete any such "kludges". Equinox ◑ 11:15, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

• Actually, I don't object to this being a hard redirect to café, for the case that someone would really use "cafe'" as a search term. But "cafe'" should not show up in Alternative forms section of café. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:28, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

  I could live with this being a hard redirect and being left out of café. If anyone ever confirms that it actually is a word in another language (presumably a language that uses the apostrophe as a letter), we can reconsider how to handle it at that time. - -sche (discuss) 01:56, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Converted to hard redirect.​—msh210℠ (talk) 05:38, 24 July 2014 (UTC)