Talk:ილუ̂

Borrowing from the substrate?

@კვარია: Hi. A month ago, I accidentally came across something similar in the Uralic languages: Hungarian ló (“horse”), Northern Mansi лув (luv, “idem”), Eastern Mansi ло (lo, “idem”), Eastern Khanty ԓӑв (łăw, “idem”), Northern Khanty ԓов (łow, “idem”). The Hungarian article also provides a comparison with Tocharian B luwo (“animal”), and in the Tocharian B article itself, a comparison is given with Tocharian B lu (“idem”). But I do not know if this could be related. ɶLerman (talk) 05:40, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

@ɶLerman: This would suggest to me Ossetian > Nakh > Svan, but it doesn't seem to be attested in Ossetian. :( კვარია (talk) 06:58, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

@ɶLerman: the plot thickens: Svan ჰილუ̂ (hilû). კვარია (talk) 08:25, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

@ɶLerman {{R:ce:Vagapov}} compares the Nakh forms to Bezhta лъига (lˢiga, “deer”), Hunzib лъига (λiga, “deer”), Ubykh лы (lə, “deer”), Hinukh алъа (aλa, “deer? auroch?”), Proto-Indo-European *h₁el-, to which I add Chamalal лъуᵸка (lˢũka, “wild goat”). Vahag (talk) 09:50, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

@კვარია: Hm. Is it necessary to compare Svan with Nakh? Although you added an interesting observation to Proto-Nakh *maar. But according to the map, Svan people is far from Nakh people.

@Vahagn Petrosyan: Honestly, I do not know how to reconstruct the original form, we do not have a Bats form. This is clearly not Proto-Nakh *lig ~ *leg. Because it would not give a vowel u in Chechen (Proto-Nakh *c̣egi, *jeg). It could have been Proto-Nakh *luw ~ *lub ~ liw (Proto-Nakh *gub, *jub, *aarc̣iw). ɶLerman (talk) 20:15, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

We musn't underestimate the importance of Ancient Svan WIFI. Modern map isn't a good argument though. Svan language used to be spoken across a bigger area. Racha and Lechkhumi were Svan speaking. Parts of Imereti were also Svan speaking. Svans also penetrated into North Caucasus into the parts where Karachay-Balkars live. Chukhua who connected the Svan and Nakh considered the Ingush to be suffixed with -ig. Obviously, he wasn't aware of Daghestani words compared by Vagapov. If those are really related, then maybe /g/ is part of the Nakh root and Svan isn't related. PS: That Ubykh mentioned by Vahag is supposed to be ԯы (lˢə). კვარია (talk) 06:37, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I know that this is a weak argument, or rather it is not even an argument. Unfortunately, I know nothing about the Svans. However, in Ingush it is still a suffix. See Proto-Nakh *gag. ɶLerman (talk) 09:16, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

This is a comparison between Starostin and Nikolaev, Vagapov copied it, I think. ɶLerman (talk) 09:29, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

I suspect Vagapov copied from Исаков, И.А.; Халилов, М.Ш. // Названия животных в цезских языках // in Отраслевая лексика дагестанских языков. Названия животных и птиц // 1988, page 117 (available on Twirpx). Vahag (talk) 09:48, 13 February 2025 (UTC)