Talk:حرنكش

The question of the etymology

Iranian

@Calak, Raxshaan: This has the look and feel of a Persian or else Iranian word, and a borrowing is likely because the genus Physalis belongs to the southern temperate climate zones, and another word for a species from this genus كَاكَنْج (kākanj) is also Persian. Though I do not find a Persian word, I do not know either of حَرَنْكَش (ḥarankaš) occurring in the Middle Ages so it might represent a recent word. You are at least able to fill the translation tables of Cape gooseberry and physalis. Fay Freak (talk) 15:15, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

It looks to me like a compound where the second part is کش (kuš, “killer”) or کش (kaš, “pulling, attracting”), however I can't find such a word in Persian. I added some translations as well. Raxshaan (talk) 17:59, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Couldn't find something like this.--Calak (talk) 06:29, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Native

According to {{R:hy:Bedevian}}, Physalis peruviana in Arabic is ḥabwah and ḥašīš sakrān. --Vahag (talk) 18:31, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: Nice, except that there are almost no hits for حَشِيش سَكْرَان (ḥašīš sakrān) and حَبْوَة (ḥabwa) 😞. Also are there Physalis species that are سَكْرَان (sakrān, “inebriated, or rather inebriant”)? And I do not see that the genus crawls (يَحْبُو (yaḥbū), which seems to be a limited-distribution term, perhaps Maghrebine as Fenakhay knows it, while حَرَنْكَش (ḥarankaš) is more widespread). Fay Freak (talk) 20:30, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

@Fay Freak: this Armenian student's work about Egyptian drug slang talks about ḥarankaš. Search it in the file. In light of Bedevian's evidence, this can be a drug name after all. Bedevian also cites Turkish sarhoş otu (“Physalis peruviana”). --Vahag (talk) 21:09, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan:

This word seems in distribution on the web indeed especially Egyptian to me – though Egypt is the most populous Arab country, thus and due to their central geographic location they spread their terms to other places.

To assume drug slang origin one needs to accept that the name is transferred from another, psychoactive and latitudinally more available plant within the Solanaceae that is visually comparable, since Physalis cannot be حَشِيش حَرَام (ḥašīš ḥarām).

The criteria fit on {Withania somnifera which a) looks very similar, is from the same tribe Physaleae b) is spread from Cabo Verde to China c) is usable to get high and d) also shares the name عِنَب الثَعْلَب‎ (ʕinab aṯ-ṯaʕlab) with Physalis. And e) I know no better psychoactive agent in the nightshade family. Solanum species to which Physalis is often compared would – without engagement, given the recordsetting size of the genus – only give you a headache and dyspepsia, and Atropa, most famous in the European Middle Ages, is but northern; others are even more dissimilar.

Though I do not find حَرَنْكَش (ḥarankaš) in the meaning Withania somnifera a drug-slang term going official is strange enough to be true, having thought the reasons through. Fay Freak (talk) 00:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

That must be the right explanation. From Armenian plant name experience I know that random stuff is often adopted as official. Some author includes a name in some glossary by misunderstanding, others copy it, then it becomes official. Opaque terms have a higher chance of becoming official, because they are supposed to be the lost "native" form. --Vahag (talk) 09:25, 3 April 2020 (UTC)