Talk:ձաւար
Add topicLatest comment: 4 years ago by Vahagn Petrosyan in topic Iranian borrowing
Iranian borrowing
[edit]@Vahagn Petrosyan: Why uncertain though? See Arabic جَاوَرَس (jāwaras). Especially the Hindi word is not hard to know, in the 21st century at least; the Arabic one uses to be unlisted though it is used now and yore. The Persian گاورس (gâwars, “Setaria viridis”) they went over because of its specific meaning and the first consonant, but the Hindi connects all again strongly by meaning. I did not find more of this family but there must be at least in India. Fay Freak (talk) 14:23, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: Remember that Armenian ջ (ǰ) is /dz/. It does not correspond to Arabic j- or Hindi j- or to their antecedents in this case, Iranian g- and Sanskrit y-. But because the traditional etymology is problematic, your findings are worth adding to my list of tentative proposals. --Vahag (talk) 17:14, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: Thanks for the reminder, though it be but a detail that it is /dz/ and not /d͡ʒ/ and yet it is in this part still closer than /j/ in Proto-Indo-Iranian *yáwas. And unlike the comparison to Proto-Indo-Iranian *yáwas this at least also has the -/ar/ part; I went much closer than the “usual connection”. One may wonder whether this is the same ending as in հազար (hazar, “lettuce”). Following the explanation at Hindi ज्वार (jvār) this is just an easy extension as Sanskrit यवाकार (yavākāra, “barley-shaped”), from यव (yava, “barley”), but maybe they substituted an easier word for a truer etymon, I know not – I cannot judge well if the derivation in Turner, Ralph Lilley (1969–1985) “yavākāra”, in A Comparative Dictionary of the Indo-Aryan Languages, London: Oxford University Press is cromulent. (The Ugaritic cognate of հազար (hazar) could suggest this is a non-Indo-Iranian suffix.) Fay Freak (talk) 17:55, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: հաճար (hačar, “spelt”) may contain the same suffix.
- One of the dictionaries compares Hebrew վար (var), չէվար (čʻēvar), without glossing them. I don't know if these are secure. --Vahag (talk) 18:31, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: Thanks for the reminder, though it be but a detail that it is /dz/ and not /d͡ʒ/ and yet it is in this part still closer than /j/ in Proto-Indo-Iranian *yáwas. And unlike the comparison to Proto-Indo-Iranian *yáwas this at least also has the -/ar/ part; I went much closer than the “usual connection”. One may wonder whether this is the same ending as in հազար (hazar, “lettuce”). Following the explanation at Hindi ज्वार (jvār) this is just an easy extension as Sanskrit यवाकार (yavākāra, “barley-shaped”), from यव (yava, “barley”), but maybe they substituted an easier word for a truer etymon, I know not – I cannot judge well if the derivation in Turner, Ralph Lilley (1969–1985) “yavākāra”, in A Comparative Dictionary of the Indo-Aryan Languages, London: Oxford University Press is cromulent. (The Ugaritic cognate of հազար (hazar) could suggest this is a non-Indo-Iranian suffix.) Fay Freak (talk) 17:55, 1 July 2020 (UTC)