Talk:իշղար
Add topicLatest comment: 6 years ago by Vahagn Petrosyan
@Vahagn Petrosyan: Compare Persian اشغور (ošğur, ašğur), اشغر (ošğor, ašğar), شغور (šoğur).--Calak (talk) 19:56, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak, you just solved another mystery. I can't believe no one bothered to check the Persian word for "badger" so far. I wonder how we can explain the initial ի- (i-) in Armenian. That's the only thing keeping me from putting this down as direct Persian borrowing. --Vahag (talk) 14:42, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: Well, This should be something like Persian سپید (sipēd) and اسپید (aspēd, ispēd). It is common to add a vowel to break consonant clusters in Persian. So we can expect an unattested išğar beside ašğar.--Calak (talk) 14:58, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- Could be. But if the Armenian is indeed a literary coinage, then it would not be from an unattested non-standard form. --Vahag (talk) 15:04, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- Umm if it is a literary coinage it can be from a misreading. Confusing unwritten sounds of a language you know more in written than in spoken form is easy. Fay Freak (talk) 15:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- The suspected coiner is Norayr de Byzance, a genius Armenian philologist. I doubt he would make a mistake. And I don't know why he would turn to Persian for coinage. He was born in Constantinople and lived in Venice, Paris and Stockholm. --Vahag (talk) 18:25, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- Umm if it is a literary coinage it can be from a misreading. Confusing unwritten sounds of a language you know more in written than in spoken form is easy. Fay Freak (talk) 15:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- Could be. But if the Armenian is indeed a literary coinage, then it would not be from an unattested non-standard form. --Vahag (talk) 15:04, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: Well, This should be something like Persian سپید (sipēd) and اسپید (aspēd, ispēd). It is common to add a vowel to break consonant clusters in Persian. So we can expect an unattested išğar beside ašğar.--Calak (talk) 14:58, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
@Vahagn Petrosyan: I think it is cognate with Persian شغال (šoğāl, “jackal”). Compare Sogdian [script needed] (škʾrʾk /škārē/, “jackal”), Khwarezmian [script needed] (škʾryk, “jackal”) and Middle Persian [script needed] (ʾwškʾl /ušgāl/, “jackal”).--Calak (talk) 12:37, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak, could be. Or the "badger" word was contaminated with the "jackal" word. Anyway, that discussion belongs in the etymology of the Persian entry, not the uncertain Armenian cognate. --Vahag (talk) 13:08, 9 August 2018 (UTC)