Wiktionary talk:Urdu transliteration

Hi, I think this Urdu transliteration page needs some improvements.
Alif and alif with 'mud' (ا، آ) should be dealt separately, like 'a' and 'ā'.
There is no representation for ں (noon ghunna).
ح can be represented with H, instead of h, which is already in use by ہ & ھ
Probably, there should not be double alphabet representation for single alphabet as sh for ش , as h is already used to represent other letter.
Shahab.bot (talk) 17:54, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

If basic alif is used for short /a/, indeed the transcription should be ⟨a⟩ then.

Nūn ġunna is probably to be transcribed ⟨n⟩ like normal nūn?

Also see Wiktionary:Hindi transliteration, we can align the Urdu transliteration table to it a bit. Note that Hindi transliteration is done automatically from Devanāgarī.

The digraphs for the consonants I better already remove, @Atitarev probably was not bold enough.

I don’t know why چ (c) is either ⟨c⟩ or ⟨č⟩ but the Hindi [tʃ] is ⟨c⟩. Shouldn’t it be ⟨č⟩? That’s quite standard for this sound for the Latin alphabet. @AryamanA Fay Freak (talk) 18:17, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

@Fay Freak, Shahab.bot: This page is outdated, Urdu uses the same transliteration as Hindi nowadays. There are no issues with the current system. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 23:20, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA It should not be outdated, it is the entry point for new users who need to know how to transliterate. I pointed him here therefore, because he has a vote to mass-create Urdu entries and adhering to a certain transliteration rule set is the requirement for it to be acceptable (in the test edits the transliteration left quite some thing to be desired), but from somewhere he needs to know the transliteration rules … so pray make the necessary adjustments so the page is not outdated @AryamanA (since I should not meddle with Hindustani). I don’t think “Urdu uses the same transliteration system as Hindi nowadays” is helpful for someone who only deals with Urdu. Well I understood that probably the thing that gets transcription is rather the pronunciation which would be identical in Hindi and Urdu (?) but still somehow one needs to learn how the transcriptions here are supposed to reflect it, because he cannot know it a priori. Fay Freak (talk) 23:56, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

@Fay Freak: Sorry for my terseness earlier, I was responding from my phone. I should have said that I will definitely update the page when I have time, because that was my intention. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 03:06, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

@Fay Freak: I don't really know what you meant by "@Atitarev probably was not bold enough.". I made changes I thought were necessary but I am not an expert in Urdu.

The basic alif can be a long and a short "a" - 'ā' and 'a'.

@Shahab.bot: It's OK to use the same Roman letter for different Urdu letters. The same happens with Persian. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:32, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

@Atitarev I only meant that originally the page had digraphs only as transcriptions then you added the “monographs” this January but did not remove the digraphs. Fay Freak (talk) 03:37, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

user friendly/ user unfriendly

Many of the letters used for Urdu transliteration like ā, ū, č, ʃ, ṭ, ḍ, ṛ, ž, ś, ġ, ū, ī are not easily found in many key-boards. Should we encourage their use? Or should we use capitals, like t for ت and T for ٹ as alternatives? (in Urdu language, there is no difference between small letters and capital letters.)
Shahab.bot (talk) 14:12, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

No, that is not done for other languages. Besides if users don’t use keyboard layouts fit to produce such signs it is their fault, plus there are also input methods in the editing window and other methods. For readers it does not matter anyway, as they don’t search by transcriptions – I dare assume –, and from editors proper transcription can be expected. Fay Freak (talk) 16:11, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Need Help

I need help to improve this Urdu transliteration scheme.

No.	Letter	Transcription
1	اَ	a
2	اُ	u
3	اِ	i
4	آ	ā
5	اً	n
6	ب	b
7	پ	p
8	ت	t
9	ٹ	ṭ
10	ث	s
11	ج	j
12	چ	č
13	ح	h
14	خ	ḵ
15	د	d
16	ڈ	ḍ
17	ذ	z
18	ر	r
19	ڑ	ṛ
20	ز	z
21	ژ	ž
22	س	s
23	ش	š
24	ص	s
25	ض	z
26	ط	t
27	ظ	z
28	ع	ā
29	غ	ġ
30	ف	f
31	ق	q
32	ک	k
33	گ	g
34	ل	l
35	م	m
36	ن	n
37	ں	ṉ
38	و	ō
39	ؤ	w
40	ہ	h
41	ۃ	t
42	ھ	ḥ
43	ء	'
44	ئ	–
45	ی	y
46	ٰی	ā
47	ے	ē

Shahab.bot (talk) 20:17, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

ALA-LC standard

Pinging: @AryamanA, Shahab.bot, Atitarev, SodhakSH, Kutchkutch, Inqilābī, Kushalpok01, Fay Freak, Fenakhay, and requesting other relevant users to be pinged.

I propose that the Urdu transliteration standard, currently used on Wiktionary be switched to the ALA-LC Urdu transliteration method with the addition that خ (x) should be transliteration as "x", غ (ġ) as "ġ" and ژ (ź) as "ž", as I feel it would represent Urdu spelling much better than the current standard, which doesn't distinguish between loan-letters, as well as the final form of the nasal vowel (ں (ṉ)) and diacritics in Urdu.

I also would like opinions on transliterating the initial alif, when followed by another vowel, for example ایک (ek) to be transliterated as "aik" instead of "ek".

I understand that this standard may cause confusion for Hindi speakers/Devanagari readers, however |hi= is utilised so that Hindi equivalents can also be shown. It can also be beneficial for those learning the Urdu spelling, who might not immediately understand that different letters are used depending on the word and its etymology.

As soon as this matter is resolved, I would be aiming to (re)start working on module:ur-translit, which was postponed due to my lack of understanding of the transliteration standard at the time.

Regards
-Taimoor Ahmed^{(گل بات؟)} 00:40, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Transliteration of final ہ : a, ah, ā ?

So how should a word like اضافہ be transcribed: izāfa, izāfah, or izāfā ? It seems many Urdu speakers don't pronounce this vowel like /a:/, so not like it's written in Devanagari. Exarchus (talk) 15:57, 4 July 2023 (UTC)