Wiktionary talk:Laz transliteration
Add topicLatest comment: 2 years ago by კვარია in topic Wiktionary standard transliteration
Wiktionary standard transliteration
[edit]@Gubazes, I made this. The IPA needs more work but that is beside choosing the transliteration scheme. I think you want to choose the Lazoğlu–Feurstein system as the standard, used for example in Nenapuna and BLS. {{R:lzz:Kojima:2003}} has modified ž to ż, saying the caron is used for ejectives while [d͡z] is not an ejective. Our Latin spellings too use ż. So should we choose the modified Lazoğlu–Feurstein of column no. 6 as the standard? You should also decide if ჳ and ჸ are allowed in Laz, and if not, how should we normalize them. Vahag (talk) 15:06, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- Column 6 is Kojima–Bucaklişi & Lazca Sözlük, right? I'm okay with it. I never saw ჳ is used. For glottal stop, only exist in academic studies that originated from Georgia (as far as I'm aware). Since most dictionaries don't use glottal stops, we should just not use it all together. For entries with w we should change it to v and show it in pronunciation. Gubazes (talk) 16:24, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- So how should we normalize the words ჸუჯი (“ear”), ღუ̂ინი (ğûini, “wine”) and ჩჳ (“to push”)? The last one is from Marr. Vahag (talk) 17:04, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- @კვარია, Gubazes, help me with the normalization rules for ჸ (ʾ) and ჳ (wi). I understand უ̂ (û) should be replaced with ვ (v). Vahag (talk) 17:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- for ჸუჯი we should normalize as უჯი (uci)(that's how I pronunce it as well). I don't know the root ჩჳ-. Does Marr give a example sentence or something. Gubazes (talk) 18:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Marr has two homonymous root headwords ჩჳ-, giving the example ვუჩუმერ (vuçumer, “I push, I drive away”) under the first and ფჩუმერ (pçumer, “I hope, I am sure”) under the second. Vahag (talk) 18:29, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- ვუჩუმერ (vuçumer) is the first person present tense version of the უჩუმერ (uçumer, “to take away (used for animate nouns)”), ფჩუმერ (pçumer) is the first person present tense version of the ჩუმერს (çumers, “to protect, to wait”). The root is ჩვ- (çv-) in both cases. I have no idea why Marr translated it as to push or speel with ჳ . Gubazes (talk) 18:51, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- I made the change to the new system. Let's see how long it will take for Kortu imperialists to complain. Vahag (talk) 19:49, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Kortu imperialists don't exist.
- Also, to be honest, I can see the argument that the transliteration does look confusing on proto pages now... But eh, if you can't read the alphabet, you're probably going to be confused anyway. კვარია (talk) 06:57, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- I made the change to the new system. Let's see how long it will take for Kortu imperialists to complain. Vahag (talk) 19:49, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- ვუჩუმერ (vuçumer) is the first person present tense version of the უჩუმერ (uçumer, “to take away (used for animate nouns)”), ფჩუმერ (pçumer) is the first person present tense version of the ჩუმერს (çumers, “to protect, to wait”). The root is ჩვ- (çv-) in both cases. I have no idea why Marr translated it as to push or speel with ჳ . Gubazes (talk) 18:51, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Marr has two homonymous root headwords ჩჳ-, giving the example ვუჩუმერ (vuçumer, “I push, I drive away”) under the first and ფჩუმერ (pçumer, “I hope, I am sure”) under the second. Vahag (talk) 18:29, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
We don't need უ̂ (û) in Zan, they should just be ვ (v) Nevermind, you got that already. :]კვარია (talk) 18:32, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- for ჸუჯი we should normalize as უჯი (uci)(that's how I pronunce it as well). I don't know the root ჩჳ-. Does Marr give a example sentence or something. Gubazes (talk) 18:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- @კვარია, Gubazes, help me with the normalization rules for ჸ (ʾ) and ჳ (wi). I understand უ̂ (û) should be replaced with ვ (v). Vahag (talk) 17:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- So how should we normalize the words ჸუჯი (“ear”), ღუ̂ინი (ğûini, “wine”) and ჩჳ (“to push”)? The last one is from Marr. Vahag (talk) 17:04, 11 December 2022 (UTC)