User talk:Sylotoid

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Apisite (talk) 01:34, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Language code

Hi, welcome to wiktionary and thanks for all the Bengali entries!! Just a small note, Bengali uses the language code bn - so in etymology you should write {{der|bn|sa}} and not {{der|inc-oas|sa}} because inc-oas is used by Early Assamese. You can approach User:Inqilābī for any queries related to Bengali. Keep those Bengali entries coming! -- Bhagadatta^(talk) 03:56, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

WT:ABN

Hi. I have created this policy page to standardise our hitherto unwritten rules; with the main objective of preventing any confusions regarding standard forms and spellings. I would like to have your feedback. Thanks! ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 13:52, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@Inqilābī Alright, I will ask from the Vaṅga perspective. When it comes to debuccalised forms, they can often be the most common forms of a word in Vaṅga (take হমকে for example); alternatively, there are some cases where the original and non-debuccalised forms of words are around equally as common and vary upon class and region (e.g. সমাইন্যা and হমাইন্যা). This being the case, which is listed as an alternative form? The same goes for words where the unvoiced velar stops are spirantised, like in লাকান and লাখান vs. লাহান, where the latter is more common in Vaṅga overall. It might be odd if transformations that were simultaneously more common were to be called 'alternative', but it would also be odd to inconsistently have some transformed forms listed as being the main ones and others not. What is your suggestion for these cases based on the rules proposed? Sylotoid (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

The best way is to treat any dialectal form as a fullfledged entry. Anyway, I see that is what you are already doing! As you said, it’s difficult to decide whether to treat the more common form or the more conservative form as the main entry, so attempting to create a policy on alternative forms that would relegate one form to being a variant of another would be really in vain. So I have modified the policy page accordingly. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 15:47, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

I did not know where to ask so I will do it here. Is it possible to have Rāṛha, Varendra, and Vaṅga term labels link to their respective Wikipedia pages as is done in Template:tlb? Also, how can the Varendra label be made to automatically include a word into the Varendra Bengali Category, the same way it works for Rāṛha and Vaṅga, as opposed to having to manually add the category at the bottom of the page? And lastly, related to the policy page, I would like to be able to standardise our transliteration and phonetic transcription for dialects: when it comes to Vaṅga, the letter চ is pronounced /t͡s/ or /s/ depending on class and region, so I have at least attempted to use 's̲' in the transliteration, but please tell me if there is a better way to go about this. I also do not exactly know what to do with the IPA when it comes to addressing tone and the loss of aspiration and breathy voice in Vaṅga. Furthermore, Varendra generally pronounced জ/য as /d͡z/, how would this be reflected in the transliteration? Sylotoid (talk) 19:47, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

I had already fixed the categorization, and now I have fixed the link thing. Well, we do not transliterate dialectal variations of a phoneme differently, so /d͡ʒ/ and /d͡z/ both are transliterated as j. And before discussing about /t͡s/ etc., I would first like to know: how do you get the Vaṅgīya orthography? Is it widely employed? Could you detail Vaṅgīya spelling convention for me? ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 17:44, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. If you can, please fix the link for Varendra as well when you are able. I will accordingly change the dialectal terms to use consistent transliteration later. When it comes to spelling convention, I just try to keep it phonetic for the most part, basing off of the spelling of standard forms (presence of chandrabindu, hasanta etc.), which is what most people do. One thing that I do which is not the most common (but still done by a significant number of people) is that, after writing ই before a consonant, I use the japhala to geminate consonants when the -ইয়া suffix is employed (e.g. বেচইন্যা), for etymological reasons, but I have tried to also include the regular doubled consonant forms as alternative forms on respective pages (বেচইন্না). Had it been up to me, I would like to just use the japhala alone for this purpose as Assamese does, but this usage is just too uncommon even in Eastern Bengali and inconsistent with the usage in Northern Bengali, so I have not done anything of the sort. Sylotoid (talk) 18:05, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

diff

Dialect labels should be put next to the part of speech heading. It makes no sense to put them before each definition; only if different definitions belong to different dialects, you can do so. Thanks! ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 16:11, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

@Inqilābī Alright, thanks for letting me know. But it still is a bit inconsistent with dialectal vocabulary I have seen for other Indian languages on Wiktionary, such as Hindi and Assamese. Can you provide me with an exemplar to go off of for future reference, even if from another language? Sylotoid (talk) 16:17, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Putting the dialect label after the headword line is based on the principle that the whole entry (or the particular etymology) belongs to a specific dialect. This is our standard practice based on instruction given at Template:tlb. Other languages entries not following that layout is not okay. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 16:25, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Got it, I will get to work on changing the rest of the pages, thanks. Does this rule still apply when there are multiple dialects that all use a certain word? Like the page for the word skeng for example. Sylotoid (talk) 16:34, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Even for single definitions, using {{tlb}} instead of {{lb}} is preferable. It is just that many editors do not conform to the stated standard, or the entries are old and have not been updated since. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 16:40, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Noakhailla

Which dialect of Noakhailla is your recent template regarding? Many of these terms that you have included are different to the ones which I am familiar with. SalamAlayka (talk) 15:21, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

@SalamAlayka It should be based on Royal District, although it may seem less familiar because I am spelling more conservatively (আমগর for আঙ্গ’ and তোমগর for তোঙ্গ’, for example. My reasoning is the derivation from আমাদিগর>আমাগর>). As far as I know, forms like আমডার are used in Feni mainly, which more regularly connects with Comilla dialect. Let me know if there was anything else you want addressed. Sylotoid (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Why do you spell conservatively as opposed to the accurate pronunciation? These spellings that you use aren't commonly used in the internet. Etymology can be explained in the article. SalamAlayka (talk) 11:17, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

@SalamAlayka The conservative spelling is also accurate in its own way, and the pronunciation spellings can be listed as alternative forms. As per the new protocol, since these are dialectal terms, pronunciation spellings of these are eligible to be their own independent pages, too. Sylotoid (talk) 14:33, 28 September 2021 (UTC)