Template talk:RQ:Buk Baibel

Template:tpi-cite-bible

Discussion moved from User talk:Sgconlaw#Template:tpi-cite-bible.

I created this before our current quotation template infrastructure came into effect. If you're interested, it would be nice to bring it in line with the standard templates. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 05:18, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Sure, I'll have a look at it. — SGconlaw (talk) 06:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Just a reminder. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 19:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: sorry, I forgot about this. I've renamed the template {{RQ:Buk Baibel}} to align it with other quotation templates, and created a draft at Template:RQ:Buk Baibel/sandbox. It is not backwards-compatible with the existing template, so if we make it go live we will have to get a bot to replace all the existing uses. As the original website is dead, I have used http://pngscriptures.org/tpi/index.htm instead. Let me know whether the template suits your needs. — SGconlaw (talk) 03:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: Looks excellent, thank you. I'm not sure why you changed the year; was there a reason for that? I saw that TheDaveRoss has been helping with the bot work, so I think it'd be best if you could ask him. I suppose it will take two runs. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:47, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

I followed the date given on the website. Where was the original date from? — SGconlaw (talk) 03:51, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

1989 is the copyright on the physical copies that I've seen. I'm really not sure what the range on the website reflects. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 05:14, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

OK, thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 06:44, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @Metaknowledge: the draft template is now live, and I've requested a bot replacement run from Benwing2 (see below). — SGconlaw (talk) 07:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Bot replacements

Hi, @Benwing, could you please assist with the following bot replacement?

From {{tpi-cite-bible|Gen|1|22|Na God i mekim gutpela '''tok''' bilong givim strong long ol. Em i tokim ol olsem, “Yupela ol kain kain samting bilong solwara, yupela i mas kamap planti na pulapim olgeta hap bilong solwara. Na yupela ol pisin, yupela i mas kamap planti long graun.”}}

to {{RQ:Buk Baibel|Jenesis|1|22|passage=Na God i mekim gutpela '''tok''' bilong givim strong long ol. Em i tokim ol olsem, “Yupela ol kain kain samting bilong solwara, yupela i mas kamap planti na pulapim olgeta hap bilong solwara. Na yupela ol pisin, yupela i mas kamap planti long graun.”}}

For the first parameter (the book of the Bible), the replacements should be as follows:

• Gen → Jenesis
• Exod → Kisim Bek
• Lev → Wok Pris
• Num → Namba
• Deut → Lo

Thank you! — SGconlaw (talk) 06:55, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@Benwing2: oh, I previously made the above request. If you have time could you fulfil it? Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:42, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw Fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 20:16, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Benwing2: Thanks! — SGconlaw (talk) 20:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

|4= and |passage=

For some reason, it seems that an unnamed fourth parameter (|4=) does not produce any output, while the documentation claims it should be equivalent to |passage=. MuDavid 栘𩿠 (talk) 07:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@MuDavid: it wasn't set properly. Thanks for highlighting the problem; it should work now. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:16, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Template:RQ:Buk Baibel

Discussion moved from User talk:Sgconlaw.

I haven't looked at this template in a while, but it seems to have been broken in the mean time. It used to show the book of the Bible, link to the appropriate section on the website, and link to an English translation of the Bible (at Wikisource?) instead of requesting an English translation. As you've edited this a bunch, would you be willing to fix this up? —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 02:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: it seems that the website changed its URL. I've updated the quotation template, so it should be working now. I can't really avoid the English translation request that pops up, though; that was built into {{quote-book}} some time ago. It appears if the language of the work isn't English. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:46, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: What did you update exactly? At e.g. bipo tru, it is clearly not working. As for the translation request, is there really no way to suppress it and link to Wikisource instead? If so, I suggest we not use {{quote-book}}, which is evidently causing more harm than good. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 18:26, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: ah, there are a number of uses of the template where the book of the Bible was indicated differently from what the website indicates. I’ve requested for a bot run to replace these uses (see above). If this isn’t done in a short time, I can do a temporary fix. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:33, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: Benwing2 has done the bot run. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

I can’t recall who worked on the quotation templates (probably @Benwing2), but at some stage it was decided, I believe, to combine the functionality of {{quote}} into these templates. {{Quote}} requires a language to be specified, and if the language isn’t English it requires a translation into English by default. I’m not sure there is a way to turn this off, and indeed, whether it should be turned off. I assume there was consensus to require editors to provide English translations when foreign quotations are specified, and if the requirement was turned off there would be inconsistencies between quotations. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge, Sgconlaw We could potentially add an argument to turn off the translation request but I'm not sure it's a good idea; ideally every quote in a foreign language should come with a translation, so the readers of the site know what the quote says. Even in this case, I'm not sure linking to some random English translation of the Bible is the right thing to do; ideally you want a direct translation of the Tok Pisin, which may not match e.g. what the NIV or KJV says. Benwing2 (talk) 20:19, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Benwing2: A back-translation from the Tok Pisin would be ever so slightly different, but considering the Tok Pisin is in turn a translation from the English (I think the NIV), the gains are slight for a massive amount of translation effort. IIRC, the template originally linked to a translation that way, and I would like it to revert to that behaviour, which we can all agree serves our readers far better than the current state. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 20:30, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge, Sgconlaw There are only about 200 uses of this template so adding the translations isn't impossible by any means, but if you really don't want that then we should probably fix the template not to use {{quote-book}}. Benwing2 (talk) 20:46, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @Benwing2: I tried editing the template so that if a translation is not specified using |translation= (and its synonyms), the template should default to displaying a link to the BibleGateway website or the King James Bible Online website (for the Apocrypha). However, it doesn't seem to work. Any idea why? — SGconlaw (talk) 08:04, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw Can you point me to an example that doesn't work and explain briefly what's going on? Benwing2 (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@Benwing2: see bipo tru, referred to above. Since Metaknowledge does not like the "(please add an English translation of this quote)" message that is displayed when no English translation is provided, I thought I would tweak the template so that if |t=, |translation= or |5= is not used, in theory the template should display a link to an online version of the New International Version or the King James Bible (for the Apocrypha). The wikitext seems correct – well, at least I can't see anything wrong with it – but for some reason my tweak doesn't work and the message requesting for an English translation still appears. Just wondering if there is something about the behaviour of Module:quote that I'm unaware of, or if I've made a mistake somewhere. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:50, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw You need #default= in the switch statement. Benwing2 (talk) 21:02, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@Benwing2: ah, thanks! Strange, I thought it generally wasn’t necessary to explicitly state that. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:36, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks so much to both of you! Looks great now. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 04:38, 1 February 2021 (UTC)