Template talk:R:hy:Aghayan

Page URL

If the page is added, it automatically creates a repeated link at the end of the line in addition to the link on the word in the beginning of the line. It would be helpful to add an ability to remove the hyperlink from "page this". Also, if the reference is added on a non-Armenian pagename, the main link is useless, so it also needs to be removable.

Example:
Aġayan, Ēduard (1976) “այլահամել”, in Ardi hayereni bacʻatrakan baṙaran [Explanatory Dictionary of Contemporary Armenian] (in Armenian), Yerevan: Hayastan, page 40 — This unsigned comment was added by GareginRA (talk • contribs).

What you describe is a feature, not a bug. --Vahag (talk) 20:54, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean? I have no complaints against the "page" input itself. It might be indeed helpful. I'm complaining against the forced, irreversible, hyperlinks, which should not take place in ALL cases. Please read closely. GareginRA (talk) 22:32, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

If you use the template on a non-Armenian page, put the Armenian headword as the first parameter, e.g. {{R:hy:Aghayan|այլահամել|page=40}}. Alphabetically arranged general dictionaries are always referenced by the headword. Why would you want to reference it with page number only? --Vahag (talk) 12:52, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Because the orders of alphabets take time to learn, though not giving the page parameters forces man to do so. I am still insecure in the orders of the Hebrew and Ethiopic alphabets, as long as I have not continuously used their dictionaries to read texts, even if I know the signs by heart. Ok, I am not normal, but as far as I understand nobody efficiently learns alphabets by order, and so knowing a writing system does not presuppose knowing any dictionary order—apart from the fact that there are multiple orders, and at least with diacritics and transcriptions it becomes complicated in the details which language sorts what where even when only the Latin alphabet is considered. Fay Freak (talk) 13:26, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

That's an argument for giving the page number in addition to the headword, not removing the reference to the headword. Note that Nayiri automatically generates a link to the correct page based on the headword. --Vahag (talk) 18:34, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

It’s an argument to give it at least. An argument not to automatically give the headword would be that one forgets it and then there are many references where a wrong headword is given. A code by Thadh's reference templates like in {{R:aa:Parker:1985}} causes the entry to be given by a mere + in |1=. A method not to give the headword would then would be to give a headword unless a - is in |1=, this I imagine to work: {{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|-||{{{1|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}} or for Unicode pedants with minus sign: {{#switch:{{{1|}}}|-|−=|#default={{{1|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}. Fay Freak (talk) 19:07, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying. Something like {{R:grc:Beekes}} can be used on many pages different from the particular headword and even on foreign language pages, but Aghayan is a very generalist dictionary of modern Armenian. In practice it will always be used for referencing the {{PAGENAME}}. --Vahag (talk) 10:05, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Fay Freak, you can omit the headword (see the example below), but there is the link to the title page that cannot be dropped. GareginRA (talk) 21:40, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

That is not what I implied in my message. OK, I will try to express myself more clearly.

Issue #1. I would like to be able to add a page number without a hyperlink, since the headword will already have the same hyperlink. Now, we could argue about reasons why the page number would be of any use in the first place if there is a hyperlink on the headword, but, for the most part, it's just for stylistic pleasure. Now, what the second hyperlink does is exactly ruining the aesthetics of the reference appearance.

Issue #2. The headword link is required even if no specific word is linked. There is no way of removing that link without adjusting the template code. Example:

Aġayan, Ēduard (1976) “”, in Ardi hayereni bacʻatrakan baṙaran [Explanatory Dictionary of Contemporary Armenian] (in Armenian), Yerevan: Hayastan, page 1617

PS. Btw, I don't think you can link to that page with a headword. GareginRA (talk) 22:06, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Regarding issue 1, as I told you, it is not a bug but a feature baked in {{cite-book}}. It cannot be changed.

Regarding issue 2, that behaviour too is deliberate. There should be no instances where a generalist dictionary like this is referenced without a headword. What do you want to reference, the introduction? --Vahag (talk) 10:05, 22 October 2021 (UTC)