Talk:kan du snakke engelsk?

low

This should probably be lowercase Ballot man jr (talk) 08:52, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

RFD discussion: September 2017–July 2020

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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kan du snakke engelsk?

Norwegian Bokmål, phrasebook entry. Not particularly common on Google Books and certainly not in phrasebooks. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Maybe snakker du engelsk? (another entry) is more common [1] than [2]. DonnanZ (talk) 11:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

• Delete. If it's rarely used, there's no reason to have it as a phrasebook entry. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 02:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
• Some searches: google books:"kan du snakke engelsk", google books:"snakker du engelsk". When I click to the right, as I have to with Google searches to see the actual number of hits, the latter search does not yield all that many more items. The entry was created by User:EivindJ, who used to declare themselves as Norwegian native speaker. The phrase is e.g. in Ny i Norge: Arbeidsbok by Gerd Manne, 1977. I think the searches for phrasebooks to apply something like the lemming heuristic are most useful for English phrases, and much less for non-English phrases. I'd say week keep, but input from Norwegian speakers would be welcome, and absent that input, I would err on the side of keeping. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:03, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

  That is a good point, "can you speak English" is more common in phrasebooks. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 09:53, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Delete. Per utramque cavernam 22:00, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

@Per utramque cavernam: Would you consider to clarify whether that delete has anything to do with WT:CFI#Idiomaticity, where phrasebook is mentioned, and which observations, measurements and searches you considered in deciding your "delete"? --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:45, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: None. It suffices me to observe that no dictionary that I know of includes phrasebook sentences in its main body; AFAICT those are always gathered in a separate section, with a distinct colour code for example. If the CFI allows them, it means I disagree with the CFI. Per utramque cavernam 21:19, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so the above is a CFI override. WT:CFI: "Phrasebook entries are very common expressions that are considered useful to non-native speakers. Although these are included as entries in the dictionary (in the main namespace), they are not usually considered in these terms." A category: Category:English phrasebook. --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:24, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Do you know of any dictionary that includes proverbs in its main body? --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:25, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: The 2005 paper version of Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary has the saying charity begins at home, just below charity and as a separate subpoint of that entry. At English, it also has the sentence do you speak English?, but only as a usage example, not as a separate subpoint. Per utramque cavernam 21:36, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

The fair entry in that same dictionary has several subpoints dedicated to idiomatic expressions, among which: to be fair, by fair means or foul, fair and square; and a final subpoint, labelled as a "saying": all's fair in love and war. Per utramque cavernam 21:51, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough. Let me then point out that we will have sentence entries in mainspace anyway--proverbs--and in addition to that, we can keep useful phrasebook entries: there are not so many to flood the mainspace. There is no consensus for abolishing the phrasebook concept as per Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2012-12/Removing phrasebook. Some entries I find very useful, such as I'm thirsty, which in Czech is mám žízeň (I have thirst); more is at User talk:Dan Polansky/2013#Usefulness of phrasebook. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:17, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Bold keep per my posts above; no Norwegian speakers have provided input, and instead, we received a CFI-overriding delete. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:19, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

If it's not "particularly common" as the request states, it doesn't meet CFI, given it states "Phrasebook entries are very common expressions that are considered useful to non-native speakers." (emphasis mine) — surjection ⟨?⟩ 13:34, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Note that my statement about its uncommonness was in particular about Google Books. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 13:41, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Changing to keep. Most Norwegian phrase books on BGC seem to be without any preview, therefore biasing BGC as a heuristic. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 13:41, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

• I know this is an old thread, but I figured I'd chime in as a Norwegian speaker, albeit non-native. In Norwegian there are several ways to ask whether somebody speaks a language: "Kan du snakke...?", "Snakker du...?" are two options. There's also a third worth mentioning, the one that I've encountered the most often: "Kan du...?", eg "Kan du engelsk?" This one is the most idiomatic--it doesn't amount to basic part-by-part translation like the other two. To me, "Kan du snakke engelsk?" and "Snakker du engelsk?" don't quite feel like "phrases" per se, but rather just different ways to word the question. "Kan du engelsk?" feels like a phrase, and would probably merit inclusion in a phrasebook. All that said, I work very little with the phrasebook part of the project so I'll abstain from offering a 'keep' or 'delete'. --Uisleach (talk) 18:00, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

No consensus to delete. — surjection ⟨??⟩ 23:25, 20 July 2020 (UTC)