Talk:gyration

Not a valid root

@Prahlad balaji: regarding your edit, can you explain why it is “not a valid root”? Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:25, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw Because in Proto-Indo-European, *-Hō was a suffix attached to roots. It was not an independent root.

Usually, PIE roots could not be used on their own, but rather were the stem of certain words, and would form an independent word if a suffix was attached to them. They also had an independent meaning, such as *gew- (alternatively *geu-) meaning to curve or bend. However, this is not the case with suffixes like *-Hō, which could not create an independent word however many suffixes were attached to it; these would only create more suffixes. Suffixes had to be attached to the end of a word (such as a root) and didn't have an independent meaning of their own. Although *-Hō is indeed derived from a root (*h₃enh₂-), it isn't a root in itself, because it itself is not the stem of any word.

Let's take a real-life example. gyr- is the stem of the word gyrate. If a suffix like -tion is added to it, we get gyration.

But, you cannot derive a word from the suffix -tion itself using only suffixes. No matter how hard you try, you won't get a word unless you add some word stem with some meaning.

Similarly, in Proto-Indo-European, suffixes like *-Hō were not true roots, or stems of words. They were merely appended to stems (roots), and could not form an independent word unless a root was added to them.

However, roots like *gew-, *geu- were the stems of words, and could be made into words if the appropriate suffixes were added.

Therefore, *-Hō is not a valid PIE root. Instead, it is an action-noun-forming suffix.

I hope that answers your question. I'm sorry if it's a little longwinded; I'm not that good at explaining things lol. Prahlad balaji (talk) 15:27, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Prahlad balaji: I understand that it is a suffix, but since the English suffix -tion is derived from it, why is it incorrect to say that gyration is not partly derived from *-Hō? — SGconlaw (talk) 15:35, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw Because *-Hō is not a root (see above). The correct root is *h₃enh₂-. Prahlad balaji (talk) 15:38, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Prahlad balaji: are you then saying that the problem is that the category name ("English terms derived from the Proto-Indo-European root XYZ") is inaccurate, but that you would have no objection if the category name was something like "English terms derived from the Proto-Indo-European prefix/suffix XYZ"? — SGconlaw (talk) 15:43, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw Well, yes. If you still wanted the root category though, you could add {{root|en|ine-pro|*h₃enh₂-}}. Prahlad balaji (talk) 15:51, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Prahlad balaji: OK, I get what you mean. Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)