Talk:ere-

Prefix ere-

@Rua, Lambiam, DrJos, Thadh, Morgengave, Alexis Jazz, Caudex Rax, MuDavid, Mnemosientje, @Munmula, Mofvanes, Voltaigne, PadshahBahadur Do you reckon that a prefix entry for Dutch ere- would be useful or do you prefer an analysis eer + -e-? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 11:57, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Also @DerRudymeister, whom I forgot to ping above. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 09:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

• ere is an outdated inflection of eer, which only survives in compounds (nearly all meaning honorary), and in petrified expressions (e.g. in ere houden), so a prefix seems appropriate, notably for the compounds PadshahBahadur (talk) 12:19, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
• I was momentarily confused, because my first thought was of the use of eer- as in eergisteren, but one cannot use *eregisteren. In compound nouns where the meaning is that the head of the compound is something created or awarded to honour something or someone (“ter ere van”), the first component is almost always ere: ereambt; ereboog; ereburger; eredame; eredienst; eredoctoraat; erekrans; erekruis; erelid; erenaam; erepalm; ereprijs; ereronde; eresaluut; ereschuld; ereteken; eretitel; erevoorzitter; erewacht; erewoord. In the exceptions eerbetoon and eerbewijs, the head is a verb stem; I think this is not a coincidence. In view of the fact that (I think) forms like *eerambt, ..., *eerwoord are not normally used, my inclination is to recognize ere- as a specific prefix, and not as the archaic inflected variant of the noun eer.  --Lambiam 12:37, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
• For the modern nouns the prefix seems most appropriate. Some older words, however, I wouldn't classify as prefixed: a quick google books search yields the noun eerelid used as early as 1861 and the word eerenaem in 1838, and seeing the German cognate and the Middle Dutch ancestor, it could well be that some of these words can be traced back to proper compounds. Thadh (talk) 13:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
• I can find myself in both views: it's easily recognizable as a variant of eer- "honor", yet at the same time ere- is mostly used to express the meaning of "honorary" rather than "honor" itself (the latter meaning you do find back in compounds with eer- such as eerroof and eergevoel). On the other hand, it does take the meaning of "honor" in a few words such as erewraak and eremoord. I suppose we could consider it somewhere midway in a transition from a pure noun to a full-fledged prefix. Morgengave (talk) 18:27, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

• @Morgengave isn't eerwraak the common spelling? Alexis Jazz (talk) 18:33, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

• @Alexis Jazz The spelling erewraak may be less common but its usage is well-attested: for example this book is titled Erewraak [1], it is used in newspaper articles [2] [3], etc. My point was also not about erewraak specifically; rather that ere- is used in various compounds in the sense of "honor" rather than "honorary", albeit to a much lesser extent. Language is messy and doesn't necessarily fit to the strict categories (noun vs prefix) we wish to create. In my view ere- can be noun and/or prefix, depending on the specific word. Morgengave (talk) 21:17, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

• @Morgengave There's also "ere wie ere toekomt". Maybe "ere" is nothing more than a noun after all? Alexis Jazz (talk) 00:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

  It is also used independently as a noun, both an archaic nominative and a genitive (der ere) and dative (in ere, ter ere) form, but in compounds as ere- it often has a specific meaning "honorary"; we could (imo we should) reserve the prefix specifically for that meaning. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 09:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

• ere- is the prefix that various modern words use, so create that. Alexis Jazz (talk) 18:31, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

• Not really sure anymore. Alexis Jazz (talk) 00:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

I've created the entry; it seems that the consensus is that an entry for the sense "honorary" is justifiable. Cf. kunst-, reuze-. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 19:17, 21 November 2020 (UTC)