Talk:doeloe
Latest comment: 3 years ago by Metaknowledge in topic RFV discussion: December 2020–February 2021
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Dutch, an exceptionally worthless entry. "Doeloe" only seems to be used in Dutch in the fixed phrase tempo doeloe (hence the RFV), the entry does not have a definition and the part of speech is wrong for this usage. I'll create tempo doeloe later. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:00, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
- Once you create tempo doeloe, I'd say convert doeloe to an
{{only used in}}entry (unless someone finds uses of it outside that expression). —Mahāgaja · talk 12:15, 27 December 2020 (UTC)- @Mahagaja I'm a bit unsure about doing that, because it is basically a Malay/Indonesian adjective that functions very differently from a Dutch adjective.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 20:08, 28 December 2020 (UTC)- @Lingo Bingo Dingo: Even so, someone coming across the phrase in something they're reading may look up the words individually, or may even assume they already know what tempo means (in the musical sense) and so only look up doeloe. It doesn't have to be a full entry; it can literally say nothing else but
# {{only used in|nl|tempo doeloe}}so that the reader is pointed in the right direction. It should probably also be listed as a derived term of tempo, again to aid someone looking up each word separately. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)- @Mahagaja That is sufficient reason for me. I've added the line and changed the RFV to an RFV sense; it remains to be seen if doeloe is used outside the phrase and I doubt that it is used productively even if it is used in another fixed phrase. There is now an entry tempo doeloe (it turned out that there already was an entry under the not very common spelling Tempo Doeloe). It is linked from tempo as a related term; unlike tempo the phrase tempo doeloe can also be attested as masculine.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 10:27, 29 December 2020 (UTC)- But is it right that the component “tempo” links to Dutch tempo instead of Indonesian tempo? It is the spelling of an Indonesian (or Malay) term, using the Van Ophuijsen Spelling System of the colonial days, still seen occasionally in historic references: Malang Tempo Doeloe; Masa keroncong tempo doeloe; Tanjung Selor Tempo Doeloe. The same issue occurs at, e.g., Dutch nasi goreng, but there at least the meaning is the same as in the donor language. In this case one cannot say *“de tempo van vroeger” when referring to the days of yore. --Lambiam 02:41, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Lambiam I'm not really sure. I am not a great fan of linking to languages other than the L2 in the headword unless it is really necessary. In this case Dutch tempo is clearly a cognate of Malay/Indonesian tempo and it might be its etymon (though I am not quite convinced of that, semantically the Portuguese cognate seems a better match).
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 09:07, 16 January 2021 (UTC)- The sense “period” is present in Portuguese (and Galician and Italian), but not at all in Dutch (except implicitly in tempo doeloe), so Dutch can be excluded as the donor, IMO. Another option than linking to id or pt is not to link at all by using
head=tempo [[doeloe]], or evenhead=tempo doeloe. I think this is preferable to a false link. --Lambiam 11:02, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
- The sense “period” is present in Portuguese (and Galician and Italian), but not at all in Dutch (except implicitly in tempo doeloe), so Dutch can be excluded as the donor, IMO. Another option than linking to id or pt is not to link at all by using
- @Lambiam I'm not really sure. I am not a great fan of linking to languages other than the L2 in the headword unless it is really necessary. In this case Dutch tempo is clearly a cognate of Malay/Indonesian tempo and it might be its etymon (though I am not quite convinced of that, semantically the Portuguese cognate seems a better match).
- But is it right that the component “tempo” links to Dutch tempo instead of Indonesian tempo? It is the spelling of an Indonesian (or Malay) term, using the Van Ophuijsen Spelling System of the colonial days, still seen occasionally in historic references: Malang Tempo Doeloe; Masa keroncong tempo doeloe; Tanjung Selor Tempo Doeloe. The same issue occurs at, e.g., Dutch nasi goreng, but there at least the meaning is the same as in the donor language. In this case one cannot say *“de tempo van vroeger” when referring to the days of yore. --Lambiam 02:41, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja That is sufficient reason for me. I've added the line and changed the RFV to an RFV sense; it remains to be seen if doeloe is used outside the phrase and I doubt that it is used productively even if it is used in another fixed phrase. There is now an entry tempo doeloe (it turned out that there already was an entry under the not very common spelling Tempo Doeloe). It is linked from tempo as a related term; unlike tempo the phrase tempo doeloe can also be attested as masculine.
- @Lingo Bingo Dingo: Even so, someone coming across the phrase in something they're reading may look up the words individually, or may even assume they already know what tempo means (in the musical sense) and so only look up doeloe. It doesn't have to be a full entry; it can literally say nothing else but
- @Mahagaja I'm a bit unsure about doing that, because it is basically a Malay/Indonesian adjective that functions very differently from a Dutch adjective.
- RFV-resolved as only in. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:48, 1 February 2021 (UTC)