Talk:baußen

RFV discussion: December 2020–January 2021

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baußen

German. Tagged by 2003:de:3723:2f69:e1ed:f947:5f41:95ff on 17 August, not listed:

“Grimms: "mhd. [= mittelhochdeutsch] in thüringisch hessischer gegend"” J3133 (talk) 08:29, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

• Should be changed to Middle High German if not attested in modern German. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 10:10, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
• Attested, see Frühneuhochdeutsches Wörterbuch for many quotes; interestingly also as a preposition like still used binnen. Somebody should templatize that dictionary for our convenience. New High German starts at about 1450, and is marked by this very vowel change ũ → au. Fay Freak (talk) 16:33, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I created {{R:FNHDWB|baussen|4adj_1605001122}} => "“baussen” in Frühneuhochdeutsches Wörterbuch, Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Göttingen, 1986–.". Feel free to rename and make it easier to use. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 17:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
    • By SIL, responsible for ISO 639-3, it's: "gmh   Middle High German (ca. 1050-1500)". This implies NHG (deu/de) is 1500-now.
      Additionally there is a problem with the spelling, if the exact spelling is needed thrice and bawsen, bawssenn, baussen, bauszen, beuzen (contrasted with: be uzen, buzen, bûzin, bůzin, buezzen, püsin, bůten, buyten, buyssen) aren't mixed into one. --Schläsinger X (talk) 19:12, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
      • The keyword there is ca. I agree with the start at ca. 1050, but it is usual in Germanistics to let it end earlier, around 1450 in my view because intelligibiltiy rapidly changes at that point. Wikipedia at Early New High German even cuts it at 1350 as a general view, wow. Anyway one cannot rest on the dates either but must see from the forms in a text in which language it is as not everything is dated or located well – therefore, Serbo-Croatian must be treated as one language, because there is too rarely a distinction discernible if a text is not too long or if I meet someone speaking the language in Germany, and I cannot split off Kajkavian just for accentological markers as someone would have liked to because they are not always seen; and by the way Middle Persian has been written until the 9th century by religious conservatives while New Persian begins in the late 7th century to make it clear that timespans of languages also overlap. The Frühneuhochdeutsches Wörterbuch here contains some Middle Low German quotes in my view thus; buyten is from a Middle Low German text from the city of Neuss north of the Benrath line. Middle Low German ends at about 1650. The line between High German and Low German are multiple isoglosses however. So you there are multiple contradictions in the subject matter itself, don’t overthink in quest of an absolute truth, there are many things to blow your mind here. The bulk is clearly under any definition New High German however as promised in that dictionary’s title.
      • There is no problem with the spelling as we normalize, which the dictionary also does. Lexemes demand three quotes, @Schläsinger X, not all their spellings. Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion § General rule says it about “a term”, and even that is explicitly not “limited to a … usual sense”. Multiple spellings are not multiple terms, they are the same term. This is obvious because otherwise Latin entries would have to be in scriptio continua (what’s a spelling even? your abstraction into Unicode), and this is also proven by the fact that one can quote exclusively from audio records. And this clear teleologically because the point of the rule is to exclude modern words that have not caught on rather than making it tedious to work with periods of a language lacking spelling standardization. Well I have talked about this at multiple occasions you can search, so I do not want not to expand on this further. Fay Freak (talk) 22:23, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
• RFV-kept. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 21:06, 4 January 2021 (UTC)