Talk:Kuomintang

Wade-Giles

(Withdrawn) 11:57, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

(Withdrawn) 13:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC) (modified)

These should clearly be treated as etymology-only languages (from the perspective of the etymology module). I agree with your argument. Theknightwho (talk) 14:01, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Obviously, GI, I think you're right and they're well-meaning but mistaken. Xi'an and Hsi-an come from the exact same languages and it's vitally important to note the transliteration scheme involved. Not everything is a romance language or should be treated as one. No, that doesn't involve calling them "special double plus plus languages". It just involves realizing that romanization is important. The only reason to code them would be to start automating their categorization. Personally, I don't care much if there's a list of all Wade-Giles forms of words because it's going to fill up very quickly with necessary but outdated and less important terms very quickly.

If it does get formatted that way, then, I suppose you're at least looking at Pinyin (I don't think the Hanyu is important to distinguish now that Taiwan's other system is gone and left little behind it) and Wade-Giles and "irregular". Guwaathulhu Fhtagn is the only word that regularly uses that system and most of the others like Legge's old scheme are the same way. The problem would be the next generation of pedantic editors who want to hone in on Latin/Portuguese/French-derived transcriptions differentiated by each Jesuit priest who ever wrote home. Bleh. Doesn't change that pinyin and Wade need to be mentioned and distinguished. — LlywelynII 10:42, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@Geographyintative: I agree with the sentiment expressed here, though I can also see how its importance might not be immediately recognized. I'm not familiar enough with etymology to comment on only actual languages mattering, but I don't see anything at WT:ETYM that would suggest transliterations should not be mentioned. Indeed since different transliteration schemes can affect both the pronunciation and understanding of words, they feel important for etymology broadly. ChromeGames (talk) 06:29, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

• @Geogrphyinitiatve: Sorry for the late reply. I removed Wade-Giles while applying the template {{translit}} in the etymology. Regardless of whether it should be mentioned in the etymology, the category that you added manually is certainly useful. We may also create an etymology template that will automatically categorize the entry as well as specify the name of the transliteration scheme in the etymology. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 22:22, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

(Withdrawn) 23:49, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

@Geographyintiatve To make this compatible with the system we have, I would suggest that we have etymology-only languages for the relevant transliteration schemes (in a similar fashion to how we have Medieval Latin, for instance). These language codes can only be used in etymology templates, and are treated as 'children' of the language, so you get all of the relevant categorisations for the parent, plus any specific ones that apply to the etymology-only language as well.

For a start, Pinyin and Wade-Giles would make sense, but no doubt there will be others. Theknightwho (talk) 18:51, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

(To acknowledge the ping: I am flattered to be on the "big name alert list", but not at all qualified in Asian languages. Sorry.) Equinox ◑ 05:20, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

RFV discussion: September 2022–February 2023

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Kuomintang

Rfv-sense: "Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang". That political party/faction is not solely referred as the "Kuomintang", but rather "Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang" (whether this SOP can survive WT:IDIOM is another problem). The quotes as mentioned under that meaning also don't prove that "Kuomintang" solely can refer to the meaning of "Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang": both of them are using the full name of that party/faction.廣九直通車 (talk) 07:57, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

(Withdrawn) 20:09, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

It's plausible, but hard to search for, because the other meaning occurs in many of the same contexts. I tried to find references to someone in the (modern) National People's Congress or NPCSC being a Kuomintang representative/delegate. Someone with more time might find something using that angle. - -sche (discuss) 22:23, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

For example, the Biographical Dictionary of Republican China has a page about "secretary general of the People's Political Council, Shao Li-tzu" who "served as a Kuomintang delegate to the Political Consultative Conference in January 1946", but that's from just before before the split of the Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang and the Kuomintang-that-went-to-Taiwan; he later served in the PRC government with the Kuomintang Revolutionary Committee. It seems plausible that the Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang would be abbreviated to Kuomintang at least sometimes in Chinese, after a first mention of the full name, but it may be too rarely mentioned in English for such use to be attested. - -sche (discuss) 01:15, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

@-sche: According to the corresponding Chinese Wikipedia page he is indeed a Kuomintang member (not yet split) at that time, and he was only a RCCK member after the PRC was established, so the quote in Biographical Dictionary of Republican China can't prove that meaning. Meanwhile in Chinese, the RCCK is known as 民革 (Míngé). The term 國民黨／国民党 (Guómíndǎng) is almost used exclusively for the ruling Kuomintang before 1949 and the Kuomintang based in Taiwan after 1949 (such as 國民黨軍, used in Mainland China when referring to the National Revolutionary Army or the later Republic of China Army; or 國民黨反動派／国民党反动派 — BTW is that term a possible deletable SOP?).廣九直通車 (talk) 09:17, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

RFV Failed, only two quotations. Ioaxxere (talk) 22:41, 9 February 2023 (UTC)