Talk:Cimbrice

meaning

In the first def and in L&S ("in the manner of the Cimbrians"), "Cimbrians" refers to the ancient German people.
Hadrianus Iunius' nomenclator surely uses it in another sense though, which would be a second def.

• Der Teutschen Sprach Ehren-Krantz ([1]) has "Schlachtemaanet" too and "Danis Cymbrisq; [Danis Cymbrisque] est Blydemanet [...]" and "Die Cimbrer umb den Rhein".
• ([2] & [3]) from 1595 already has similar "Schlachtmaent", and other terms in -maent as Laumaent, Klagmaent = Jan., Blydemaent = Febr.
• "Cymbrici Honmaanet" and "Cymbrici Oestmaanet" also occur in ([4]) from 1656.

-84.161.26.64 18:41, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

RFV discussion: September 2018–February 2021

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Cimbrice

While Citations:Cimbrice & Talk:Cimbrice#meaning show that the term has a 2nd sense, I don't see any evidence that it refers to Cimbrians as modern German people.
On the contrary, I see reasons why it should be something else:

• de:w:Zimbrisch#Dokumentation: "1602 [...] ältestes Buch in zimbrischer Sprache" & "machte der deutsche Kosmograph Anton Friedrich Büsching 1769 die Zimbern im deutschen Sprachraum bekannt" (Der Teutschen Sprach Ehren-Krantz from 1644 is older than the latter)
• Abraham Peter Cronholm's Forn-nordiska minnen has: "Francico mich, mik, mih, vel Cimbrico mig [...] Cambrico þig, vel Franco-Theotisco thich, thigh, thih" & "sumus, estis, sunt, Cimbrice erum, erud, eru". "Francico mich, mik, mih" looks like it refers to German (OHG, OLG, maybe including OD) - and mig and þig as well es erum, erud, eru (also cp. eruð and vera) could refer to Icelandic or some other Norse German language.
  PS: Cronholm's is based on Georgius Hickesius' older work ([5]).
• "Danis Cymbrisq; [Danis Cymbrisque] est Blydemanet [...]" and -maanet (from Der Teutschen Sprach Ehren-Krantz) could refer to some Norse German language (cp. måned: "From Old Danish .. ma(a)net ..."), LG (Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/mēnōþs#Descendants: "Middle Low German: mānet"), Low or South Low Franconian ("Middle Dutch: mānet, maent").

-84.161.26.64 21:57, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Incidentally, as long as we're having an RFV, it'd be good/necessary to have some examples of the first sense (relating to the Cimbri) in use as opposed to mentions in dictionaries. - -sche (discuss) 00:31, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Aha, with the help of Antiquitatum Danicarum sermones XVL, which seems to use Cimbrica and Cimbria, etc, in senses that refers to the same group as the 1620, 1705 and other citations of Cimbrice, I may have worked it out: the book has sections on Cimbria & Scandinavia populosissime terra and other things and contains such lines as "Omnibus notissimum est totum Germanica faecundissimae tractum praecipue geminas illas aqvilonis, maximasq.; peninsulas, Cimbriam & Scandinaviam innumeris & fortissimis hominibus, omni exuberasse tempore." This suggests that it may be referring to the people who inhabit the Cimbric/Cimbrian Peninsula (Jutland), i.e. the Jutes or the Danes. (Although the Cimbri are said to be from Jutland, the 1620 and 1705 uses are providing clearly Germanic words not ascribable to the Cimbri.) - -sche (discuss) 00:48, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Incidentally, google books:"Cimbrians" "Jutland" and related searches suggest that Cimbrian may be citable with this sense in English. - -sche (discuss) 00:52, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Georges: "Adv. Cimbricē, zimbrisch, loqui, Ps. Quint. decl. 3, 13."

L&S: "Adv.: Cimbrĭcē, in the manner of the Cimbrians: loqui, Quint. Decl. 3, 13."

Similar in many other dictionaries (e.g. Scheller-Lünemann-Georges, Dutch Georges-Schneither, Freund, Frenchy Freund, English Freund-Riddle, English Freund-Andrews, Leverett, White). For the source ([Pseudo-]Quintilianus, Declamationes) compare w:Declamation#History and w:Quintilian#Works.

In an older edition from 1549 and in an edition from 1905 (US): "... an Cimbrice loquendum sit."

Here it's quoted without caps.

Another usage with should refer to the ancient German people: [6].

BTW: Some other usages of Cimbrica, Cimbricae, Cimbrici (Cimbricus): by Paul Fleming -84.161.26.64 08:23, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

I've removed the original second sense, "in the manner or language of the Cimbrians, a Germanic people who inhabit northern Italy and speak a Bavarian language", and added a sense for the Cimbrian-Peninsula-related citations above. It's possible that if there aren't more citations, the senses should be merged, although if there were enough citations to keep them separate that would been useful. - -sche (discuss) 07:32, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

• Antique Latin sense is now properly cited: Citations:Cimbrice#pertaining to the Cimbri.
• [7]: "JÓTSKR, adj., Cimbricus, Danicus (Jótar): jótskir menn Cimbri, Ý. 35. [cp. jyde and it's etymology]. The source also has "Cimbr. = Cimbrice." and uses it at least once (mis-OCR-ed as "Сітbr": [8]). It does at least hint that Cimbric- could refer the people of Jutland.
  That could also fit with the 1705 source (Hickesius). While gnog might be non-Norse-German in origin, it could be a borrowing from German (be it High or Low German), or alternatively Cimbric could be more northern Low German (as spoken in Northern Schleswig) or some unprecise umbrella-term. The 1620 source has Cimbric Tormaanet [= March], Faremaanet [= April], Schlachtemaanet [= November]. Other sources for the name for April: [9]: "alt Dänisch, Faremaanet", [10] "die Dänen Faremaanet", [11] which gives 2 sources for it, "Hadr. jurii nomenclator" and "Halthauss, in Cal." (Christianus Gottlob Haltausius, Calendarium medii aevi praecipue germanicum in quo [...], "Aprilis ... Cymbrice Faremaanet ... Dns Fabricius in Menolog. p. 144 ait: Faremanet ..." [12] ~> Jo. Albertus Fabricius, Menologium, sive Libellus de Mensibus, [...], "Danorum. ... 4. Aprilis Faremanet ..." [13]). So it could be from a language of the people of Jutland too.
• Younger senses, if there are multiple senses (like maybe Jutlandish, Danish, Northern Low German), maybe should be merged, but it shouldn't be merged with the older sense.

-84.161.38.239 20:54, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

If it's worth anything, those are obsolete Danish month names. ODS says that fåremåned/Faare-Maaned ("sheep-month") may be a bastardization of earlier faremåned (“travel-month”).__Gamren (talk) 23:42, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

All of the existing meanings seem to be cited, so RFV-kept. — surjection ⟨??⟩ 11:08, 8 February 2021 (UTC)