Talk:-eresse
Add topicLatest comment: 3 years ago by Dentonius in topic RFD discussion: August–December 2020
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French suffix, presumably an alt form of -esse but unused. Ultimateria (talk) 18:09, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
- Not unused, we have forteresse, pécheresse, demanderesse, quakeresse, devineresse, chasseresse, vengeresse, sécheresse, défenderesse, bailleresse, sècheresse, and mégasécheresse. Not all of them really have a suffix -eresse, of course. —Mahāgaja · talk 19:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
- Rather obviously, quakeresse is not quak + -eresse. --Lambiam 14:58, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
- It's instructive to observe what fr:-eresse has. The gloss is just "Suffixe servant à former des mots féminins." and the two odd-ones-out (sècheresse, forteresse) are lumped in with a range of feminine agent nouns, the more usual sense of this suffix. I'd suggest to keep the entry and add a sense for the feminine agent noun use. This, that and the other (talk) 08:02, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
- Synchronically, -eresse is just the feminine of -eur, just like -euse. Excepted some action or result nouns like sécheresse, all the others are feminine agent nouns with masculine counterparts like vengeresse feminine of vengeur (instead of synchornically expected regular *vengeuse). Thus its surface analysis is -eur + -esse. Malku H₂n̥rés (talk) 16:40, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- To know if a word is formed of -esse or -eresse, the best is to compare the masculine and the feminine to find the common root (for quakeresse, the common root is quaker, therefore quaker + -esse, for chasseresse, the common root is chass, therefore chass + -eresse). Thomas Linard (talk) 16:39, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
- Synchronically, -eresse is just the feminine of -eur, just like -euse. Excepted some action or result nouns like sécheresse, all the others are feminine agent nouns with masculine counterparts like vengeresse feminine of vengeur (instead of synchornically expected regular *vengeuse). Thus its surface analysis is -eur + -esse. Malku H₂n̥rés (talk) 16:40, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep, it's a real suffix, it's used (beyond the words in the category, others with this ending are danseresse, empereresse (obsolete?), guinderesse, menteresse), and the current etymology is also incomplete (superficial): this ending goes back to the same Latin root as -atrice, and initially became -eriz, then changed under the influence of -esse, as I learned while investigating something else (the origin of the "er" in "casserole"). - -sche (discuss) 05:44, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
- empereresse is very old (according to https://cnrtl.fr/definition/dmf/emperesse, it's a XVth century spelling) and not used anymore. emperesse is still used, but in only one case: for Mathilde l'Emperesse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Matilda). You can consult the category on the Wiktionnaire for the French: https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Mots_en_fran%C3%A7ais_suffix%C3%A9s_avec_-eresse or the entry -eresse, for French, Middle French and Old French: https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/-eresse Thomas Linard (talk) 15:02, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
RFD kept — Dentonius 06:23, 16 December 2020 (UTC)