Talk:𐍄𐍂𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍅𐍃

Pronunciation

@Mahagaja Are you sure about the pronunciation here? It seems to me like the cluster -𐌲𐌲𐍅- should rather yield [ŋɡʷ] or something similar. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 17:02, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

@Mnemosientje: 𐌲𐌲𐍅 stands for both /ŋɡʷ/ and /ɡɡʷ/, the latter coming from PGmc *-ww- by Verschärfung. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 18:29, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

@Mahagaja: Thank you, I was unaware. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 18:31, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

@Mnemosientje: The page you linked to [1] in no way suggests the possibility that this word is pronounced /triŋɡʷs/. On the contrary, it says "Ostrogothic Triggu(ila)*/Triuu(il)a* can confirm only absence of a nasal but may also lack /g/." It's the ones with etymological n that he's expressing doubt about, since /ŋɡ/ is occasionally spelled ⟨𐌽𐌲⟩ but /ŋɡʷ/ is never spelled ⟨𐌽𐌲𐍅⟩, meaning one can't completely rule out the possibility that historical *ngw has been denasalized to ggw. —Mahāgaja · talk 18:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja, Fungustober I had a discussion with Fungustober about this over at their talk page and to be honest while I am not sure either and think /ggʷ/ is probably right, it really doesn't seem like a crazy idea to represent both viewpoints. Pointing only to Miller may have been a bit too little to that end, I agree, but please note the reference at 𐍄𐍂𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍅𐌰 (triggwa), where I've expanded it a bit following your revert here. I intend to replicate that reference on this page too, because I really think we should at the very least note the uncertainty instead of pretending there is a clear consensus, but wanted to give you a heads-up here first and not edit-war if possible. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 19:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mnemosientje: Thanks for pointing me to 𐍄𐍂𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍅𐌰 and its link to Snædal's paper. I'm not convinced by it, and still think that a dual pronunciation of 𐌲𐌲𐍅 depending on etymology is more likely, but you're right that we shouldn't simply ignore it, especially since he's not the only one who thinks the outcome of Verschärfung was /ŋɡʷ/. —Mahāgaja · talk 19:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja Truthfully, Snaedal seems hardly sure what to make of it either in that paper. Of the three sources I listed, Marchand is most certain of /ŋɡʷ/. Anyhow, I have restored the addition with the reference expanded somewhat. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 07:33, 22 October 2024 (UTC)