Talk:熨斗

RFV discussion: May 2018–September 2020

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熨斗

RFV for reading utsuto. Included in ja.wiktionary. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 04:07, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

I sure can't find any support for this reading.

I find this spelling in both Weblio (in various sources) and [https://kotobank.jp/word/%E7%86%A8%E6%96%97-112174 Kotobank (also multiple sources), but other than the JA Wiktionary included in Weblio's hits, no one lists any reading except のし (noshi).

Weblio has nothing at all for うつと (utsuto), and only the unrelated adverb for うっと (utto). Likewise, Kotobank has nothing for うつと (utsuto) and only the adverb for うっと (utto).

The JA Wikipedia article only lists the のし (noshi) reading for Japanese, mentioning:

なお、漢語「熨斗」は「ウット」とも読み、「熨（熱でしわをのばす）」＋「斗（ひしゃく）」、即ち、昔のアイロンである火熨斗（ひのし）を指す。

Note that this says 漢(●)語(●)「熨斗」は, indicating that this is (the Japanese rendering of) the Chinese term. Compare modern Min Nan reading ut-táu. I suspect that the JA Wiktionary editor was confused by this, as also suggested by their apparent misspelling of the kana -- the JA WP says ウット (utto), whereas the JA WT says ウツト (utsuto), and the editor of our Japaneses entry must have followed suit.

If we can find any evidence for this term actually used in JA with the utto reading, we should clarify the sense, as this seems restricted to JA contexts talking about ZH culture and language, where this reading refers to the iron used to press clothing. Our senses for the noshi reading are lacking, both at the Japanese 熨斗 entry and at the linked English noshi entry. Modern JA noshi is either short for 火熨斗 (hinoshi, “traditional clothing iron”, literally “fire + pressing, smoothing”), or refers to a kind of origami, sometimes even just a printed picture or stamp of the origami pattern, or in extremely abbreviated instances even just the two hiragana spelling out のし (noshi), as explained in more detail at the JA WP article. The dried abalone is generally omitted in modern usage, which isn't clear from either our JA or EN entries. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 16:17, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• RFV failed. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:03, 21 September 2020 (UTC)