Talk:水

Other reading

maybe みな (mina) is another reading? Petruk 12:18 Jun 11, 2003 (UTC)

Yes! I looked up at http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1B and found that it has even more NANORI (??) readings: うず, ずみ, つ, ど, み, みさ, みつ, みな, みん ... I will add them. It would be good to add real examples of people names, which use the readings. Inyuki 20030611T2211Z

^__^ 楽しかった　Inyuki 2003-06-12 20:32 UTC

The link does not work anymore, it's not updated. I'm not so sure about the reading つ and ど being nanori for 水. I haven't found any references or sources for it yet. Anyone could provide a source? --Rachial (talk) 18:08, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

@Rachial, here's a corrected URL: http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1MMC水

Name readings are particularly problematic for Japanese, since they can be so arbitrary on the one hand, and difficult to confirm on the other. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 22:13, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

@Eirikr thanks for the link! yes, nanori can be quite complicated. I'll try to cross-check and find out even more about these two readings because I have still some doubts left. The reason being that online japanese dictionaries don't report these two sort of readings meanwhile the EDICT japanese - english does. Could a more in depth dictionary somewhere in written form have the answer?

So my intent is to find either the source that the EDICT entry was based on or to either find a written example of the nanori to confirm the latter, if possible. If any new developments may arise, I'll provide my findings. --Rachial (talk) 23:25, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Turkish

su means water in Turkish. ( < sub in Old Turkic), cognate with Chinese shui. Böri 16:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

How do you know these are cognate, when the two languages are in different families? 71.66.97.228 02:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Please read these articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic_languages & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Human_language Böri 10:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Although I do vaguely believe in a "Proto-Human language", the connection of 水 with Proto-Turkic *sub is unlikely. 水 in Middle Chinese was pronounced ɕ(j)wij. It rhymes with -ujʔ and -unʔ characters in Shijing, which points to an earlier -r coda. Dialectal data and cognate characters (川, 沝) indicate that the initial in Old Chinese was *l̥-. Current reconstructions are: Zhengzhang Shangfang *qhʷljilʔ, Pan Wuyun *qhʷljiʔ, Li Fanggui *hrjidx, William Baxter *hljijʔ, Laurent Sagart *^bhlu[r]ʔ. 60.240.101.246 13:06, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Additional definitions?

Can this also mean "river"? 71.66.97.228 02:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes. 60.240.101.246 13:06, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Added. 71.66.97.228 07:52, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Lua memory

@Wyang, Suzukaze-c: My changes to Module:zh seem to have caused the Derived terms list in the Chinese entry to run out of memory. It is a very long list. Is there anything that can be done to shorten it, or should I revert my changes to the module? — Eru·tuon 03:47, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

I ran a script to remove compounds which looked like compounds of compounds. It is displaying okay now. Wyang (talk) 03:54, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

@Wyang, now the memory error also occurs in 紅, looks like some compounds of compounds are there as well. How many other pages are having this too? ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 09:58, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@Poketalker Cat:E. It seems 紅 is the only one. Wyang (talk) 10:03, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@Wyang, if that page has most compounds are not compounds of compounds, but still gives the error, would suggest a separate entry for any large Compounds section? Would expect less than 100 entries from Japanese kō alone. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 10:14, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@Poketalker Removing it doesn't make the error go away though. It seems {{Han etym}} is using more memory; adding a |no_img=y parameter could improve it, and removing that template would completely resolve the issue. Wyang (talk) 10:42, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@Erutuon, Suzukaze-c, Wyang, memory error still persists with expansion. Suggesting separate article(s) for both Chinese and Japanese compounds? Or do you think there are some compounds of compounds left? ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 23:47, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Poketalker: I'm not seeing a module error right now, but memory is very close to the limit so maybe there was an error recently. (Memory sometimes varies randomly.) Some of my recent changes to Module:zh-pron increased Lua memory usage slightly. — Eru·tuon 20:50, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Whoops, now there's a module error. — Eru·tuon 22:41, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative It might not be a good idea to add "compounds of compounds" such as 水利工程 to the Chinese compounds section if 水利 is already listed in {{zh-der}} of 水. The longer compounds such as 水利局, 水利樞紐, 水利工程, etc. can go under the derived terms of 水利 to prevent the character page of 水 from running out of Lua memory.

By the way, here's another method to search for Chinese compounds based on entries that are already created on Wiktionary. KevinUp (talk) 17:14, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I will stop adding 'compounds of compounds'. Thanks --Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:31, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

@Erutuon Thanks for creating {{ja-r/multi}} and {{ja-r/args}} to reduce the Lua memory. Meanwhile, I tried to use {{zh-der/fast}} instead of {{zh-der}} with manually added simplified forms but it seems to have slightly increased the memory rather than reducing it. Would you mind trying? KevinUp (talk) 11:57, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

@KevinUp: I saw a memory reduction for the Chinese compounds section before and after the change, but an increase for the whole page. Weird. — Eru·tuon 20:18, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

@Erutuon: I've restored {{Han etym}} and I noticed that overall Lua memory increased from only 45.05 MB → 47.95 MB (2.90 MB difference after {{zh-der/fast}} is used) compared to 44.62 MB → 48.98 MB (4.36 MB difference) yesterday before {{zh-der/fast}} is used, so the two templates might be related. KevinUp (talk) 13:04, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Tea Room discussion

A discussion of the use of this to refer to beverages other than water is at Wiktionary:Tea_room/2018/October#水. - -sche (discuss) 01:30, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Baxter & Sagart

@Erminwin, I checked Baxter and Sagart (2014) and I couldn't find them connecting this word to *m-t(w)əj ~ m-ti-s. Where did you get this from? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:32, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• Greetings, justinrleung! Thanks for pointing out my mistake! You are right! What Sagart & Baxter meant by "Benedict's PTB *twiy corresponds to STEDT's #2719 PTB *twəy "flow, suppurate"; not #298 PTB *m-t(w)əy-n ~ *m-ti-s. Erminwin (talk) 22:27, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Erminwin: Ah, I missed that part! I've added that to the etymology. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:59, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

RFV discussion: September–November 2019

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

---

水 (Mulam)

The references given don't give how it's written. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Pinging Lo Ximiendo. No Mulam entries have references for how they are written (e.g. 五). On the other hand, is there any other reasonable way in which these might be written using Chinese characters? And suppose we find a Mulam attestation for 水, how would it help, unless it is like a Rosetta stone? How can we be sure (a) that it means “water” and not, say, “state of beingness”; and (b) that it is pronounced nəm4 and not, say, pɔk7?  --Lambiam 08:46, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Mulam is an unwritten language and IPA is used for its transcription. I've verified the reading nəm⁴ which is found in 仫佬语简志 (民族出版社, 1980). Entries in Category:Mulam lemmas that use Han script will need to be migrated to Latin script. KevinUp (talk) 07:02, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

RFV deleted. I've created an entry at nəm⁴ (with references) and will proceed to migrate other Mulam entries to Latin script. KevinUp (talk) 10:11, 30 November 2019 (UTC)