Talk:شوب

Etymology

This word might be related to Syriac ܫܰܘܒܳܐ?
https://sedra.bethmardutho.org/lexeme/get/3134
https://www.syriacdictionary.net/index.cgi?langsel=en&word=%DC%AB%DC%B0%DC%98%DC%92%DC%B3%DC%90 — This unsigned comment was added by SarahFatimaK (talk • contribs) at 11:45, 7 June 2021 (UTC).

@SarahFatimaK: The SLA word is from CA شَوْب (šawb, “hot wind”), though the CA root seems underdeveloped which likely means it is borrowed. — Fenakhay ^{(تكلم معاي · ما ساهمت)} 12:53, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

The Arabic meaning ”hot wind” may be a separate borrowing. The whole root did not seem restricted to me, although I had considered a borrowing, as شَابَ (šāba, “to mix”) is used well and in a neutral fashion. However, now you say it, @Fenakhay, meanings of “to adulterate, to vitiate, to spoil” as well as “to be disloyal, treacherous etc.” relate to the meanings of “to change direction, turn away” of the Aramaic š-w-b, more generally “to return”. Though it is only in Old Aramaic š-w-b, while in Biblical Aramaic already, which is mid-1st century BCE, t-w-b, which did pass as تَابَ (tāba, “to repent”), “to be disloyal” and “to repent” is a fitting contranym pair, and any other Northwest Semitic languages retain š for *ṯ and probably lesser-known Aramaic dialects since there was no sound change from Old Aramaic š to t and it’s just other dialects which ousted the others, and even in one dialect it wasn’t needs consistent but the Aramaic lects were a chain of substrata and superstrata:

“Mixing” things then is under ancient conditions a process of “laying aside” ingredients, “draw a part from one thing and in turn join it into another”. “Returning” home or to a settlement was also “to join” people. Turns out also Hebrew שָׁאַב (šāḇ) is “to draw”, apparently the idea of drawing the bucket from a well is “returning”. CAL deems meanings “to draw”, if extant in Aramaic, Hebraisms. I am not sure their meanings of “desiccation, dryness” are unrelated: It happens often in the desert that you have drawn out all the water and have to wait for it to fill again for the camels to drink. The meaning “a blast” for šawbā may also be variously related. Basically something one mixes into another thing can also be called a blast. The way the mascot of a popular American drink-mix blasts through walls. We find here a yet to be attested alchemical meaning in Aramaic I guess. Then again, what is the relation of heat to mixing? Q 37:67 speaks of شَوْب (šawb, “mix”) of a حَمِيم (ḥamīm, “boiling whatever”). So شَابَ (šāba) can be denominal, I guess. But you still wouldn’t know completely which words and meanings of the formula ش و ب are original borrowings, it is still worth to create the root, to explain etymology; sometimes also I say a bit to explain at multiple pages.

Corriente, Federico, Pereira, Christophe, Vicente, Angeles, editors (2017), Dictionnaire du faisceau dialectal arabe andalou. Perspectives phraséologiques et étymologiques (in French), Berlin: De Gruyter, →ISBN, page 740 have a boilerplate explanation: They see it as “a sibilant causative prefix” + ء و ب (ʔ-w-b). This seems off-the-wall since that prefix reflects as س (s) at the very best. Correspondingly of course ث و ب (ṯ-w-b) is not the affix of form V or form VIII joined to ء و ب (ʔ-w-b). Fay Freak (talk) 13:41, 7 June 2021 (UTC)