Talk:коляда
Add topicLatest comment: 6 years ago by Guldrelokk
- коляда́ (koljadá), (from Old Church Slavonic колѧда (kolęda)?) ultimately from Latin kalendae. Doublet of кале́нды (kaléndy). Apparently has a mobile accent: коля́ды (koljády) in the plural (see ru:коляда)? ru.wikt also has an entry for ru:Коляда, a mythological figure?
- About the mobile accent, see Belarusian каля́ды (kaljády). Our translation tables at Christmas and merry Christmas give Каляды́ (Kaljadý), з Каляда́мі (z Kaljadámi) but I think that might just be a mistake. Vasmer, Max (1964–1973) “коляда́”, in Oleg Trubachyov, transl., Этимологический словарь русского языка [Etymological Dictionary of the Russian Language] (in Russian), Moscow: Progress speaks of Belarusian каляда́ (kaljadá) in the singular (well, he writes коляда́ but we already know he doesn't pay attention to Belarusian orthographic vowel reduction)
- It is not necessarily to assume a Church Slavonic mediation, *kolęda is a part of the Common Slavic Christian terminology (which is notably Latin in origin). The correct stress is каля́ды (Russian коля́ды).
- All right. Last question about this word: do you know why ru.wikt gives the plural forms with an asterisk?
- The usual sense ‘Christmas folk tradition’ is abstract, thus uncountable. The dialectal term ‘a day of Christmas’ is countable, however; dictionaries give коля́ды. Guldrelokk (talk) 19:47, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- All right. Last question about this word: do you know why ru.wikt gives the plural forms with an asterisk?
- As for ru:Коляда, any alleged Slavic mythological figure needs double-checking. The vast majority of them are Pseudogottheiten. In Russian the phenomenon of folk deities being dreamed up by nonrigorous academics is known as кабинетная мифология, and the Wikipedia article gives ‘Коляда’ as just an example. This topic, unfortunately, is FULL of poor science, pseudo-science and outright crackpottery. Guldrelokk (talk) 03:51, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for clearing that up! кабинетная мифология is a funny expression in itself (reminds me of keyboard warrior or armchair general; I think the image is the same). Does it deserve an entry, or just a usex at кабинетный? Per utramque cavernam 14:13, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- I am not well-versed in the rules. The term is widely used in literature on the subject, including an encyclopedic dictionary Славянская мифология. Энциклопедический словарь, and possibly merits inclusion. Guldrelokk (talk) 19:47, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Guldrelokk: Some Belarusian sources put stress on the last syllable - каляда́ (kaljadá), even provide accented inflected forms. Pls check slounik. It's hard to establish the correct Belarusian stress on some terms. Каляды́ (Kaljadý) can be confirmed as a place name in Belarus, though. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:43, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Atitarev: It’s каляда́ ~ каля́ды, same accent pattern as рука́, сястра́ etc., ubiquitous in Belorussian. Guldrelokk (talk) 12:46, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Guldrelokk: Thanks. It must be a d accent pattern then? рука́ (ruká) is not the best example, since it has forms {m|be|рука́м}}, {m|be|рука́мі}}. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:39, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Yes. Historically both b (сястра) and c (галава). Guldrelokk (talk) 05:41, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Guldrelokk: Some Belarusian sources put stress on the last syllable - каляда́ (kaljadá), even provide accented inflected forms. Pls check slounik. It's hard to establish the correct Belarusian stress on some terms. Каляды́ (Kaljadý) can be confirmed as a place name in Belarus, though. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:43, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- I am not well-versed in the rules. The term is widely used in literature on the subject, including an encyclopedic dictionary Славянская мифология. Энциклопедический словарь, and possibly merits inclusion. Guldrelokk (talk) 19:47, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for clearing that up! кабинетная мифология is a funny expression in itself (reminds me of keyboard warrior or armchair general; I think the image is the same). Does it deserve an entry, or just a usex at кабинетный? Per utramque cavernam 14:13, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- It is not necessarily to assume a Church Slavonic mediation, *kolęda is a part of the Common Slavic Christian terminology (which is notably Latin in origin). The correct stress is каля́ды (Russian коля́ды).
- About the mobile accent, see Belarusian каля́ды (kaljády). Our translation tables at Christmas and merry Christmas give Каляды́ (Kaljadý), з Каляда́мі (z Kaljadámi) but I think that might just be a mistake. Vasmer, Max (1964–1973) “коляда́”, in Oleg Trubachyov, transl., Этимологический словарь русского языка [Etymological Dictionary of the Russian Language] (in Russian), Moscow: Progress speaks of Belarusian каляда́ (kaljadá) in the singular (well, he writes коляда́ but we already know he doesn't pay attention to Belarusian orthographic vowel reduction)