Talk:Κιωουία

Cannot find it

@Mahagaja, cannot find this, except with Latin letters Kiouia at Giovanni Battista Ramusio. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 19:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek:, take it to RFV then, I guess. —Mahāgaja · talk 21:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja, I was going to add {delete}, because I have nothing on this. Also its creator Special:Contributions/2.41.156.173 has added Κιωνία at Kiev, and for that I find some misreadings of Google "Κιωνία" (Books • Groups • Scholar) like κ ιωνία / Συ-κυωνία etc ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 22:15, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Still, RFV is the place to take terms whose existence you doubt. The other question is, what was Kiev called in Medieval Greek? Greek Wikipedia calls the Kievan Rus' "Ρως του Κιέβου", but I suspect that's a modern Greek name, not a medieval one. I didn't see anything obvious skimming briefly through the Κ section of Sophocles's dictionary. —Mahāgaja · talk 08:01, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja: it is still seen at Kyiv#Translations. Mahagaja, I do not know how to go to RFV, as I am not an admin, and I have no opinion, except that it cannot be found. If someone finds it, it could be added? I do not know the policies of en.wikt. If a {delete} stays unanswered for 15 days, is it not sufficient? If I add {rfv}, it may stay there for many years, viewd -and copied- around the internet. I guess, after deleting, a question Can we find a text with the oldest attested Hellenic translation for Kyiv? (excpected Κίεβον). Is there a policy "first verify, then create lemma? / we create lemmas only with ref" + If an anon makes lemmata without ref, is he not blocked? ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 08:23, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Probably some of earliest: cf w:Isidore_of_Kiev, In 1437, Isidore was appointed Metropolitan of Kiev and all Rus' by Emperor John VIII Palaeologus w:Metropolitanate_of_Kyiv, w:Council_of_Florence the Union was officially proclaimed by Isidore of Kiev in Hagia Sophia on 12 December 1452 ref https://www.academia.edu/12517867 But I do not know if there are texts in Greek or only in Latin about this. Sathas, writes (in 1867) about him Φιλολογία/Ισίδωρος @el.wikisource ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 09:01, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

+some possible sources @pinakes & here // Manuscripts #Kiev @vatilib Also, Cardinal Isidore info at p.83 ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 10:10, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Actual attestetion of Kyiv is here. Can someone add it? Sławobóg (talk) 14:59, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you M @Sławobóg This text by Porfyrogennitos, has plenty of 'transliterations' of Russian placenames (which often flactuate for spelling, gender, etc). As 'Kiev' we have _1. page 56, line 8 a neuter «τὸ Κιοάβα» Kioába (describing a castle) and _2 page 62, line 106 a masculine accusative «τὸν Κίαβον» (nominative ὁ Κίαβος Kíabos . But not a feminine Κιωουία. Notifying admin @Mahagaja: delete?

@Sarri.greek: Listing an entry at RFV is easy; you don't have to be an admin. Just add {{rfv|grc}} to the top of the page, then click on the "(+)" where the box says "A user has added this entry to requests for verification⁽⁺⁾". This will automatically start a new thread at Wiktionary:Requests for verification/Non-English where you can explain where you have looked for this term and haven't been able to find it. We do not actually require a reference to start a lemma; we trust our editors not to make up words. But if a second editor doubts the existence of a term, they can take it to RFV, and if it can't be verified, it gets deleted. And while there are a few entries that languish at RFV for years, the vast majority of RFV requests are settled within a few months: either they get verified, or they get deleted. If you create the request, I'll keep an eye on it, and if no one has verified the term within a month or so, I'll delete the entry. —Mahāgaja · talk 13:12, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Mahagaja I copypasted your instructions. I understand this policy for 'editors'. BUT for anon? We encounter this at el.wikt too (with very very few patrollers) We have a note Deleting anon's unsourced creation ++and we add a link at 'Wanted; wikt:el:Βικιλεξικό:Ζητούμενα (ελληνικά). Obvisously, if it is an otherwise ok-page, and the source is well-known to us, ok, ok, we may help (once, twice, thrice, but if the IP keeps doing this... hh). Why should IPs think that the job of wikt.editors is to find sources for un-foundable words they like? It takes more than half an hour to look up some weird words. Why is this accepted? I wish that en.wikt consider a stricter policy. Is there a {alert|admins} on this issue? Words-for-verification are sitting is maintenance Categories for months, years and decades. ++ In the meantime, the word is copied and quoted everywhere in the internet... ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 14:15, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Obvious protologisms can be deleted on sight without an RFV, but I wouldn't call this an obvious protologism. That's why I asked above if we can find out what Kiev was called in Medieval Greek. It must have been called something, and on the face of it, Κιωουία (Kiōouía) doesn't look unlikely – especially if Latin Kiovia is attested – but of course it's best to have confirmation. —Mahāgaja · talk 14:46, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

This word does not exist anywhere. Speedy delete. FocalPoint (talk) 05:57, 12 June 2024 (UTC)