Reconstruction talk:Proto-Slavic/ogarь
Add topicOld East Slavic огаръ (ogarŭ, “kind of a ship”) may be descended, per Vasmer s.v. Vasmer, Max (1964–1973) “огар”, in Oleg Trubachyov, transl., Этимологический словарь русского языка [Etymological Dictionary of the Russian Language] (in Russian), Moscow: Progress. --Vahag (talk) 19:38, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- Added. There are also some Turkic (Chuvash, Kyrgyz, that I can recognize abbreviations) cognates commented out in the etymology section that need proper script. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 20:31, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- The source of Turkic ägär, äŋär, igär is Radlov, pages 695, 711, 1425. "bar." is w:Baraba dialect, "tel." is w:ru:Телеутское наречие. From real-world words I found only Chuvash акар (ak̬ar, “борзая”). Abaev additionally has Kabardian ẖaǵer and Ingush ier. Корш apud Vasmer derives the Slavic words (and Byzantine Greek ζαγάριον (zagárion)) from the Kabardian word. --Vahag (talk) 21:21, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- Possibly a compounded/suffixed form of хьэ (ḥɛ, “dog”)? We should ask User:Adamsa123. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 21:45, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps. I found only Adyghe хьэджашъу (ḥɛdžašʷu, “greyhound”) and шэкӏуахь (šɛkʷʼaḥ, “greyhound”). Greek ζαγάριον (zagárion) (and Serbo-Croation за̀гар?) are supposed to contain Adyghe зы (zə, “one”). But Greek dictionaries derive the former from Turkish zağar (“hunting dog”), from Arabic [script needed] (sakar). --Vahag (talk) 22:14, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- SC and Greek ζαγάρι (zagári) are definitely from Ottoman Turkish. I'm rooting for Turkic origin of the latter, which would mean that the same word was borrowed twice into SC via different routes. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 22:32, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- I wouldn't expect Turkish زغر (zağar) to be of native Turkic origin. Budagov lists no cognates. Nishanyan leaves the origin open. Sevortyan hasn't gotten to z. By the way, all three men are Armenians. I find it ironic that we wrote the best dictionaries of our mortal enemies. --Vahag (talk) 13:46, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
- SC and Greek ζαγάρι (zagári) are definitely from Ottoman Turkish. I'm rooting for Turkic origin of the latter, which would mean that the same word was borrowed twice into SC via different routes. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 22:32, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps. I found only Adyghe хьэджашъу (ḥɛdžašʷu, “greyhound”) and шэкӏуахь (šɛkʷʼaḥ, “greyhound”). Greek ζαγάριον (zagárion) (and Serbo-Croation за̀гар?) are supposed to contain Adyghe зы (zə, “one”). But Greek dictionaries derive the former from Turkish zağar (“hunting dog”), from Arabic [script needed] (sakar). --Vahag (talk) 22:14, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- Possibly a compounded/suffixed form of хьэ (ḥɛ, “dog”)? We should ask User:Adamsa123. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 21:45, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- The source of Turkic ägär, äŋär, igär is Radlov, pages 695, 711, 1425. "bar." is w:Baraba dialect, "tel." is w:ru:Телеутское наречие. From real-world words I found only Chuvash акар (ak̬ar, “борзая”). Abaev additionally has Kabardian ẖaǵer and Ingush ier. Корш apud Vasmer derives the Slavic words (and Byzantine Greek ζαγάριον (zagárion)) from the Kabardian word. --Vahag (talk) 21:21, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
In Soviet Russia, reconstructed forms mark you. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- :) --Vahag (talk) 21:21, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
It's highly probable that this term derives from *gorěti because of the very often black ("burned") coat of the hounds that were imported. See this dictionary entry for reference: https://pl.wikisource.org/wiki/S%C5%82ownik_etymologiczny_j%C4%99zyka_polskiego/ogar
I'd make the changes but I don't have the time. 77.222.233.66 04:21, 4 January 2024 (UTC)