Module talk:number list/data/cy

please review

(Notifying Mahagaja, RichardW57): Hi. I have been working on numbers in various languages. Welsh has turned out to be incredibly complicated, and I'm not sure if everything is correct. Please review when you have a chance. Note that numbers 21-98 (and partially 99) other than even multiples of ten are autogenerated by the code. Benwing2 (talk) 00:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Do you want to record the place of the noun in the number phrase, or are you relying on the mostly non-existent quotations? 'Before nouns' often needs to be replaced by 'around nouns'.--RichardW57 (talk) 20:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

"Ac" + consonant reduces to "a", and takes the aspirate mutation, so deugain a thri for '43'. --RichardW57 (talk) 20:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Benwing2: Dau vil for 2,000 is doubly wrong. First, /v/ is written <f>, and secondly, mil '1,000' is a feminine noun, so the higher numerals go dwy fil, tair mil, pedair mil and then phontactics come into play - pum mil, chwe mil. The 'wrong' forms also occur with fair frequency. I'm tabulating my checking results at User:RichardW57/sandbox#Welsh_Number_Checking. --RichardW57 (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Benwing2 In light of this morning changes, I'm going to treat ordinals 100fed and 101af as part of the set to review. I had tagged them as additions until you added them. --RichardW57 (talk) 05:17, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

@Benwing2, Llusiduonbach:, (Notifying Mahagaja, RichardW57): I'm steadily working through the numbers. The various accounts look to be hit by several problems:

1. The describers seem mostly to have described the scheme they use;
2. There are lots of schemes, but many peter out at different points. For example, 'UNIT ar ddeg' seems to trail off at 17, with many people only going up to 14 (or 15 if you count pymtheg). Suffixing these to make ordinals only gets Google hits for uses as far as unarbymthegfed, for which I have found a single Google hit as a use, but it's in a book. It does ram home the point that Welsh is an LDL.
3. Some of the accounts do seem to be plain wrong!

We seem to be missing out on the systematic borrowing of English numerals for the more complex numbers.

Quite a few numbers have three different ordinal abbreviations. I haven't look into the coding issues, beyond noting that the current code treats it as a problem.

How is 42fed spelt out? Many fundamentally different ways? --RichardW57m (talk) 13:35, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

I notice obsolete forms such as deufed ar bymtheg, dwyfed ar bymtheg, eilfed ar bymtheg and so on have been added to this table and so appear in information boxes in the body of the dictionary. As the Welsh numerical system with all its variations is already complicated enough, wouldn't these alternative obsolete forms be better off appearing simply as links in the currently used ail ar bymtheg? Llusiduonbach (talk) 21:10, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Number Box Errors in cat:E

@Chuck Entz, Benwing2 I've started adding entries to display quotations (or near quotations) for numbers expressed using "ar ddeugain" (so 41 to 59). Unfortunately, {{number box}} then generates module errors. How should I handle this? I see several options:

1. Comment the invocations out, and hope I remember to go back and restore them.
2. Hack the data module myself to add these forms.
3. Publish a cat:E pollution reassurance message on WT:GP.
4. Suppress warnings from those files; I think that is beyond my powers.

Please advise. --RichardW57m (talk) 13:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm not really all that good with the finer details of the modules, but it looks like your options are either to add the appropriate values to this data module (it should be possible without removing or replacing what's there) or to just not use the number box template in those entries. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:22, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: OK, I've gone with Option 2. I've done the bare minimum, and modified the entries for 48, 100 & 120. --RichardW57m (talk) 16:20, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@RichardW57m Give me a bit and I'll fix the module appropriately. Benwing2 (talk) 01:12, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

@Benwing2: I think doing more now would be premature. There's probably quite a bit of restructuring to do when the results are in, plus some oddities - I've only found uses of the vigesimal form "UNIT ar ddeugain" for 41 to 50! Perhaps ringing the changes on the connector as in dau ar bymtheg a deugain is more appealing.--RichardW57m (talk) 10:12, 7 September 2022 (UTC)