Module talk:labels/data/regional

The splitting of language-independent regional labels from dialect labels will not always work. For example, Karabakh now points to the Karabakh dialect of Armenian, but Azerbaijani too has a Karabakh dialect. I don't know how such cases can be accommodated. I had split Hamshen Armenian from Hamshen Turkish by their spelling (Hamshen vs Hemşin) but that cannot be always done. --Vahag (talk) 11:45, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm thinking that labels could be extended with language-specific information. That way, you could specify that if the language is Armenian, then the label should be treated differently from the generic way. —CodeCat 12:17, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

That would be useful. But this is not urgent. --Vahag (talk) 12:57, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Should chronolects go here?

Is this the place to add chronolects, specifically eras/stages of Hebrew which have Wikipedia pages (Biblical Hebrew/Classical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew, Medieval Hebrew and Modern Hebrew) and IIRC Greek also has one which we don't distinguish by L2 header. Or should it be in the {{Module:labels/data}} or a new submodule. Enosh (talk) 12:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Related, should we add modern to generics. Something like:

labels["modern"] = {
	display = "modern",
	regional_categories = {"Modern"},
}

Enosh (talk) 18:50, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I am thinking of making this module only for labels specifying a specific geographical location, and putting labels for actual dialects in another module. Chronolects would then go in that new module, along with Medieval Latin and such. —CodeCat 19:03, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Relatedly, Category:Biblical Hebrew is currently in Category:Regional Hebrew, although it's not regional but temporal. And the "Israeli" label (in Hebrew) is ambiguously used both to distinguish modern from biblical, and potentially as a geographic label — conceivably the Hebrew spoken in Israel could have words that the Hebrew spoken in Germany (etc), especially historically, might not. - -sche (discuss) 20:00, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Do you think we should create a new Category:Hebrew subvarieties? This would either replace or become a new parent to Category:Regional Hebrew. As for Israeli, that's just misuse of the label; "Israeli" means "of Israel" on the surface, there is no sense of any time period. —CodeCat 20:06, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

There are several problems with your change, which may or may not prove to be inherent with any effort to split "dialects" from "regions", if such a split is desirable at all. Something like "Aachen dialect", for instance, is a dialect which is specific to the city of Aachen. Likewise, words in German might be specific to the Palatinate, words in Rhine Franconian might also be specific, and in the latter Palatine is a dialect (which in our treatment of it is specific to the region of the Palatine, since we consider varieties of it that left the Palatinate to be separate languages). Your notion of "Northern Germany German" is just wrong, no-one uses such a phrase. Etc. - -sche (discuss) 20:21, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@-sche I have an idea for allowing label data to specify data for a specific language. This language-specific data would override the generic data, if there is any. Something like this:

labels["northern Vietnam"] = {
	display = "[[w:Northern Vietnam|Northern Vietnam]]",
	regional_categories = {"Northern Vietnam"},
	["vi"] = {
		display = "[[w:Northern Vietnam|Northern Vietnam]]",
		plain_categories = {"Northern Vietnamese"},
	},
}

This way, the categorisation works for Vietnamese but also for other languages. {{lb|vi|Northern Vietnam}} would categorise in Category:Northern Vietnamese, while {{lb|zh|Northern Vietnam}} would give Category:Northern Vietnam Chinese. You could also handle cases where the same name is used for dialects of different languages. For example:

labels["Belgium"] = {
	display = "[[w:Belgium|Belgium]]",
	regional_categories = {"Belgian"},
	["fr"] = {
		display = "[[w:Belgian French|Belgium]]",
		plain_categories = {"Belgian French"},
	},
	["nl"] = {
		display = "[[w:Belgian Dutch|Belgium]]",
		plain_categories = {"Belgian Dutch"},
	},
}

We could also handle the ambiguity of "Flemish" specially:

labels["Flanders"] = {
	display = "[[w:Flanders|Flanders]]",
	regional_categories = {"Flemish"},
	["dum"] = {
		display = "[[w:County of Flanders|Flanders]]",
		plain_categories = {"Flemish Middle Dutch"},
	},
	["nl"] = {
		display = "[[w:East Flemish|East]] and [[w:West Flemish|West Flanders]]",
		plain_categories = {"East Flemish Dutch", "West Flemish Dutch"},
	},
}

What do you think of this? —CodeCat 22:04, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable. I'm sorry I simply undid your change rather than trying to hammer out the problems; that was an overreaction on my part. I think that would also work for the Palatine varieties, which are in practice probably going to be used mostly with gmw-rfr and only sometimes with de. - -sche (discuss) 23:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Ancient Greek dialects

Since Module:labels/data/subvarieties isn't accessible from Template:label and Template:term-label, could an admin revert my edit removing the Ancient Greek labels from this module so that I can use them in entries again? The page is currently edit-protected to common people such as myself. — Eru·tuon 06:52, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

No response. @-sche, CodeCat? — Eru·tuon 02:21, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Done. - -sche (discuss) 02:56, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Adding regional_categories

I keep having errors trying to add the regional_categories parameter. I double checked the syntax and it's still saying: "Lua error at line 2394: '}' expected (to close '{' at line 2392) near 'regional_categories'". Does this have anything to do with the fact that I'm using the Chrome Chinese input?--Prisencolin (talk) 08:26, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

@Prisencolin I don't think so. Check harder to find any missing or extra brackets. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 08:50, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

US English

Koavf, Justinrleung, CodeCat, re your recent edits: the reason some entries were being placed in CAT:US English is that they were using the label "US English", which invokes Module:labels/data/subvarieties, and added that category (I have updated it to now add the expected category, CAT:American English). If they had used bare "US", they would have invoked this module instead and added CAT:American English through it.
Compare how (AFAICT) {{lb|en|British English}} adds CAT:British English via Module:labels/data/subvarieties, whereas {{lb|en|British}} adds CAT:British English via Module:labels/data/regional.
This does seem quite Byzantine and duplicative. - -sche (discuss) 00:16, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

The duplication should be fixed by moving the content of the labels Module:labels/data/regional to Module:labels/data/subvarieties. Anything related to a specific language should no longer be in Module:labels/data/regional. — Eru·tuon 00:34, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

"US" can apply to multiple languages (English, Spanish, French and possibly some others), so it's duplicative to have it Module:labels/data/subvarieties. - -sche (discuss) 01:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Huh? I'm not talking about the label "US", rather about "US English". — Eru·tuon 02:11, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Exactly. And {{lb|en|US English}} adds CAT:American English (now that I fixed it) via Module:labels/data/subvarieties, and was used by a total of six entries until I switched them to the usual label {{lb|en|US}}, which adds CAT:American English to thousands of entries via Module:labels/data/regional. Hence, it semes duplicative to have "US English" Module:labels/data/subvarieties; the only thing it seems to have accomplished was miscategorizing the very few entries that used it until a while ago. (The only entry that still uses "US English" that I see is carnival.) - -sche (discuss) 03:02, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I see. The subvarieties label adds CAT:American English through a plain category, and the regional label through a regional category. It is redundant; but if we removed "US English", editors would have to always use {{lb|en|US}} instead of {{lb|en|US English}}. — Eru·tuon 03:10, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Mandarin dialectal terms

@Dokurrat: do you need some assistance? What are you wanting to achieve? — SGconlaw (talk) 05:01, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: Thanks, but, I guess not now. Things should be fine now. Dokurrat (talk) 05:06, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Great. — SGconlaw (talk) 05:07, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

@Dokurrat: I think "dialectal Mandarin" should be automatically categorize to Category:Mandarin dialectal terms. Why should we add that category manually? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:16, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Okay. Dokurrat (talk) 06:25, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Lowlit

Why is this module not syntax-highlighted like Module:labels/data/topical and Module:labels/data/subvarieties? - dcljr (talk) 12:48, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

No longer relevant. - dcljr (talk) 20:40, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Nunavut

@Benwing2 What's the reason for this change? Nunavut is a part of Canada, and the Yukon, NWT, Ontario, etc. have Canadian under the regional categories line. If they are going to maintain it, then Nunavut should as well. It makes perfect sense on that level. AG202 (talk) 18:08, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@AG202 It was because Inuktitut was getting categorized as "Canadian Inuktitut" when the Nunavut label was used, which is redundant, and it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to categorize Nunavut under "Canadian X" rather than "Nunavut X". I didn't realize there were other languages using it. In general I think that regional terms should be moved to the language-specific sections. Which languages are using the Nunavut label and expecting it to classify under "Canadian X"? Benwing2 (talk) 18:34, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@Benwing2: If I saw a specific term used in Nunavut English, I'd expect it to be under Canadian English, but I do agree with you that regional terms should be moved to language-specific sections. AG202 (talk) 18:48, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Northern Crimea

Currently prints "Northern X" for any language, which is obviously a mistake, but I'm not sure what it's used for, so don't know how to fix it. Thadh (talk) 14:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Fixed — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 15:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Regional varieties of Australian English

Currently, if I type any Australian state or territory, it gives a link to the state or territory but it adds Category:Australian English. I think we should split this into:

• Category:New South Wales English
• Category:Northern Territory English
• Category:Queensland English
• Category:South Australian English
• Category:Tasmanian English
• Category:Victorian English
• Category:Western Australian English

I haven't included Category:Canberran English (or perhaps Category:Australian Capital Territory English) because I assume that there aren't many (if any) terms used there that are not used in New South Wales, but of course I don't live in Canberra so I could be wrong (but I'm probably not). 2001:8004:2778:4E8D:40F:54A0:A43F:F695 08:32, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Fijian English

Can we make it so adding "Fiji" and "Fijian" link to this category? 2001:8004:2778:4E8D:40F:54A0:A43F:F695 08:33, 6 January 2024 (UTC)