Module talk:Quotations/grc/data

About link changes

See Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2024/February#Homeric_quotations Updating here, as M Erutuon suggested - notifying @Erutuon, AntiquatedMan.
PS. Some el.wikisource pages are terrible, like Pindar s:el:Ολυμπιόνικοι, the impossible links at Euclides s:el:Στοιχεία/β, the #v and the #p and the #p. Maybe the old perseus.tufts.edu which often offers an English translation at the right.menu, would be useful for our readers? The problem is that perseus uses 4 params work-book--chapter-section, unlike LSJ's Work-Book-Chapter.0 with a dot. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 20:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, linking to Perseus certainly has some advantages, like the translation functionality (IMO the new https://scaife.perseus.org/ is even better). However, some things I like about the wikisource pages is that (at least for the plays) we can include a list of characters and mark strophes and anti-strophes etc.

For simple quotations on Wiktionary switching to perseus.tufts.edu (or scaife.perseus.org) might indeed be a good idea. If it is at all possible to get working links to scaife.perseus.org that might have my preference, since you can actually link to individual lines (e.g. line 27: https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0011.tlg005.perseus-grc2:27).

I do want to continue working on improving the Wikisource pages in the meantime. I think the pages for Sophocles' plays are already looking a bit better. AntiquatedMan (talk) 09:06, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Good work for Sophocles at el.wikisource Mr @AntiquatedMan! Yes, I like scaife (but not a good navigation for all Chapters there). Sometimes my fav is perseus.tufts.edu, others, scaife.perseus (for shorter paragraphs, or lines). And sometimes, bg (books.google) e.g. Pindarus.links here + I find Eng.transl elsewhere. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 13:49, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek, Erutuon, AntiquatedMan: I'm having trouble with the template as well, but not for Homer. At λόγου χάρις I want to link to s:el:Των_περί_τα_ζώα_ιστοριών/2#p500a, but typing {{Q|grc|Arist.|History of Animals|2|500a}} returns a link to (the nonexistent) s:el:Των_περί_τα_ζώα_ιστοριών/#p2.500a —Mahāgaja · talk 20:40, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja, it has chapters are #Κεφάλαιο (but this is non-w:Bekker numbering marking and there are no Bekker anchors in this work. I enter wikisource s:el:Των_περί_τα_ζώα_ιστοριών/2#Κεφάλαιο_1 or better place {anchor|500a}before the 500a number. I hope the Q template allows manual params (also: it is "λόγου χάριν" setphrase, not "λόγου χάρις"@scaife.perseus.wrong [@scaife.perseus] ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 21:20, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

The entry has been moved to [[λόγου χάριν]], but the problem with the link remains. The problem is not just that the anchor is wrong, but the page itself is wrong too. The link goes to the non-existent page s:el:Των_περί_τα_ζώα_ιστοριών/ instead of s:el:Των_περί_τα_ζώα_ιστοριών/2. —Mahāgaja · talk 07:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, Artistotles works are in dire need of standardization. The rlFormat (=5) for 'History of Animals' is shared with 'Problems' and 'Nicomachean Ethics'. However:

• 'Problems' doesn't have its Bekker-numbering in place
• 'Nichomachean Ethics' does Bekker-numbering for chapter-sections, but also "regular" line-numbering with template:σ. However, this regular line-numbering restarts with each Bekker-number, which breaks, because the two numbering systems respond to seperate links (which means that links in -#1 just link to the first {σ|1} for the entire chapter).

None of the links generated by rlFormat 5 (for Aristotle) are correct.

(b.t.w. for Aristotle, six different rlFormats are uses, which is odd, since all of them are in theory covered by Bekker-numbering) AntiquatedMan (talk) 10:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja would you use Q for inital data only, like this?: ++ also Loeb has Bekker selecvtion too Loeb 500, a click Enter

384 BCE – 322 BCE, Aristotle, History of Animals 500a (2-6) @el.wikisource:

Πάντα δ' ὅσα κερατοφόρα, τετράποδά ἐστιν, εἰ μή τι κατὰ μεταφορὰν λέγεται ἔχειν κέρας καὶ λόγου χάριν, ὥσπερ τοὺς περὶ Θήβας ὄφεις οἱ Αἰγύπτιοί φασιν, ἔχοντας ἐπανάστασιν ὅσον προφάσεως χάριν.

Pánta d' hósa keratophóra, tetrápodá estin, ei mḗ ti katà metaphoràn légetai ékhein kéras kaì lógou khárin, hṓsper toùs perì Thḗbas ópheis hoi Aigúptioí phasin, ékhontas epanástasin hóson propháseōs khárin.

• 1910 (Wikisource link) translation by D'Arcy Wentworth Thompson

  But all animals that are horned are quadrupedal, except in cases where a creature is said metaphorically, or by a figure of speech, to have horns; just as the Egyptians describe the serpents found in the neighbourhood of Thebes, while in point of fact the creatures have merely protuberances on the head sufficiently large to suggest such an epithet.

@Sarri.greek:, sure, using |ref= like that works, but I'd rather have the module fixed so that using the template in the normal way works correctly. Who knows how many entries already use {{Q}} for Aristotle and have broken links? —Mahāgaja · talk 07:57, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja, Sir, perhaps extra choices of sources at a Template:RQ:... using the beginning {Q|grc|Arist|Work .. + further links for text, Eng.translation etc. -For some writers, as with Pindar (cf links above), and many others, wikisource is not a desired link?-. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 10:39, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I would agree that it would be preferable to "fix" (and simplify/standardize) the module, even if it may seem like more work. There currently seem to be ~327 entries that feature quotes from Aristotle, which all things considered seems a practicable amount if we decide to adopt a (new) singular standard for Aristotle quote-formatting. The bigger job will be to work out and implement a standard layout + anchors on the Greek Wikisource pages, which would also involve some cross-communication with the folks there. BTW, I probably won't be able to do much the coming week. AntiquatedMan (talk) 10:04, 19 February 2024 (UTC)