Appendix talk:Polish pronunciation

y as [ɨ]?

It is rather pronounced like ɪ̈ or even ɘ. SMiki55 (talk) 19:01, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

ŋ before velars

Recently, the IPA template has been tampered with. /n/ in Polish does not become [ŋ] before /k/ or /ɡ/. Please change it back, as it gives the wrong pronunciation for all words containing the sequence -ng- or -nk-. Explosivo (talk) 15:31, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

@Explosivo We would have to change the pronunciation to [], which I do not wish to do. Vininn126 (talk) 15:44, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

In fact, there will be a new MOD:zlw-lch-IPA which will have a purely phonetic transcription. Vininn126 (talk) 15:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

@Vininn126 I don't understand much of the code. Can you explain why this change was introduced in the first place? n doesn't become ŋ in these contexts, not even phonetically. The sound ŋ in Polish is only possible as a realization of the nasals ą/ę before before g/k. It is phonologically distinct from the sequence vowel + ng/nk. --Explosivo (talk) 16:20, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Explosivo In short [ŋ] will not be transcribed with the new module. Also -nk- -nk- will not include it, even though plenty of speakers have that realization, i.e. in Kraków. Vininn126 (talk) 16:29, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Vininn126: I think the current module still does make [ŋ] before k and g.

Is this siąka vs sionka situation (per Wikipedia)? Wikipedia says it should be [ˈɕɔn̪ka] for the latter. The current module makes sionka /ˈɕɔŋ.ka/. Isn't it what you @Explosivo, want?

(Just trying to understand, I have no strong opinion here.) Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Atitarev More or less, but [ŋ] is not phonemic but our current analysis. Vininn126 (talk) 10:08, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Atitarev Yes, this is what I meant. But if it's going to be fixed soon, it's fine. --Explosivo (talk) 16:16, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Vininn126, @Explosivo: To be honest, I am confused about what is right and what is not working.

1. The current module already adds [ŋ] before k and g - that's what Explosivo wants.
2. Vininn126 says [ŋ] is not phonemic, so "nk" (sionka) should give [nk], not [ŋk], right?

Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:08, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@Atitarev In short the new module won't print [ŋ] at all because we are using // in the new module. Explosivo claims [ŋ] only arises from nasal assimilation of nasal vowels, which is true for some speakers, but others also pronounce <n> as [ŋ] before <k> <g>. Vininn126 (talk) 08:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@Atitarev No, that's not what I wanted. Polish is one of the languages where n usually does not assimilate before velar consonants, just as in Russian. If I remember correctly, there was a time when this was transcribed as such on Wiktionary. Then it changed somehow. I was advocating to have it changed back. --Explosivo (talk) 01:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

@Explosivo There is plenty of evidence to show that lots of speakers do that. But it doesn't matter, it's not going to be in the module. Vininn126 (talk) 09:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

@Explosivo: You sort it between yourselves but Russian doesn’t have any assimilation of “n” before “g” or “k”. банк (bank) is just /bank/. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:03, 6 December 2023 (UTC)