Wiktionary talk:About Bourguignon
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[edit]- Discussion moved from User talk:-sche/Burgundian.
This looks moderately convincing for treatment as a separate language. I guess mutual intelligibility is useless here, considering they'd all know Parisian French anyway. I note that some of the vocabulary items are not unique to Burgundian, and some are used in the standard French spoken there (those seem to be what fr:Catégorie:français de Bourgogne contains). French Wiktionary seems to be ignoring the problem of Burgundian proper, but I wonder if any of the editors there would be knowledgeable enough to comment on whether Burgundian should be treated as a separate language. @Lmaltier, Noé? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 09:00, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- Hello ! I work on oïl languages in the french Wiktionary (thanks to @Noé for the ping). I have made this map to separate each Oïl languages. You can see Burgundian (it's "Bourguignon-Morvandiau") and all other languages. If you have a question about local and minor languages on France, feel free to ask me ! --Lyokoï (talk) 09:11, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks! @Lyokoï, we are trying to figure out whether Burgundian is indeed a separate language that in sufficiently different from the others that we should use ==Burgundian== as an L2 header (as we do for Picard, Walloon, Norman, etc); it appears that you don't do that for Burgundian at fr.wiktionary.org. You can feel free to respond in French if you are not comfortable explaining in English. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 09:27, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- Il y a bien un code de langue pour bourguignon : fr:Catégorie:bourguignon. --Lyokoï (talk) 11:21, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks! @Lyokoï, we are trying to figure out whether Burgundian is indeed a separate language that in sufficiently different from the others that we should use ==Burgundian== as an L2 header (as we do for Picard, Walloon, Norman, etc); it appears that you don't do that for Burgundian at fr.wiktionary.org. You can feel free to respond in French if you are not comfortable explaining in English. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 09:27, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
A very important point: Burgundian as a separate language should not be confused with regional French used in the region. All regions use a number of words not used elsewhere, but it's French nonetheless. For more information, have a look at w:fr:Bourguignon-morvandiau and w:Burgundian language (Oïl). The language is spoken mostly by old people, and might disappear in the future if no action is taken. Lmaltier (talk) 17:20, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- OK, so you just haven't added any, but you do support its treatment as a separate language, I take it? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:49, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
- Yes. --Lyokoï (talk) 15:55, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- Merci for your input! Of the languages on that map, we currently have codes for Walloon, Picard, Norman, Gallo, and now Bourguignon(-Morvandiau). (PS: I'm going to move this page out of my userspace.) - -sche (discuss) 16:47, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- Yes. --Lyokoï (talk) 15:55, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- ...and that means that out of the languages on the map, we do not yet have codes for Angevin, Berrichon, Boubonnais, Champenois, Franc-Comtois, Francilien, Lorrain, Mayennais, Orleanais, Pecheron, Poitevin-Saintongeais, Sarthois, Tourangeau. I wonder if we are better off treating each of these as separate, or having a code for "Oïl" or at least larger 'groupings'. Wikipedia has a map (to the right) that groups e.g. Gallo and Angevin, and Berrichon and Boubonnais, but in the other direction splits Poitevin-Saintongeais. - -sche (discuss) 16:27, 28 August 2016 (UTC)