Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2025/January
Can a Vulgar Latin *hinbernum ~ *himbernum really yield these forms with /v/? Wouldn't, for example, the Italian outcome of such a form be *imberno rather than inverno? 92.73.31.113 03:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- The form belongs to a later period in which original intervocalic ‘b’ had long ago turned to a fricative.
- The problem here is that you’ve tried to interpret *hinbernum through the (anachronistic) prism of Classical Latin sound-to-spelling correspondences. Nicodene (talk) 05:50, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- Is there any evidence for a separate *hīnbernum form? I would have assumed that an assimilated *hīmbernum form would have gained ground fairly quickly. Wakuran (talk) 12:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- I imagine that the nasal simply remained dependent on the following fricative for its place of articulation.
- For instance *[imβɛ́rnu] initially, then in places where [β] turned to [v], the [m] followed suit automatically (yielding [ɱ], which can be phonemically recategorized as /n/).
- Traditional Latin spelling varies quite a bit in such cases. One author’s imbutus is another’s inbutus, though both probably said it with [m]. The ⟨n⟩ spelling is likely for morphological reasons (the prefix being in-, which generally does have [n]).
- Nicodene (talk) 04:54, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
- Is there any evidence for a separate *hīnbernum form? I would have assumed that an assimilated *hīmbernum form would have gained ground fairly quickly. Wakuran (talk) 12:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
@Leasnam Any ideas what is triggering i-umlaut in this word? — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:32, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
- Not sure, but it's a pattern seen in many terms related to ān (“one”): āniġ ~ ǣniġ; ānlīċ ~ ǣnlīċ; āninga ~ ǣninga; ānes ~ ǣnes; ānlīepe ~ ǣnlīepe; ānwintre ~ ǣnwintre; etc. Leasnam (talk) 18:49, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
- Probably the same sound change first seen in Proto-Norse ᛗᛁᚾᛁᚾᛟ (minino), also Old English Wēden. It seems like -an- had a tendency to become -in- in certain words in northern Germanic (Proto-Norse and English). This new vowel caused i-umlaut in OE but not in ON, which was more resistant (cf. Proto-Germanic *hugiz > Old Norse hugr, Old English hyge). So ǣne < *aininō < *ainanō. ᛙᛆᚱᛐᛁᚿᛌᛆᛌ ᛭ Proto-Norsing ᛭ Ask me anything 18:22, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Is it possible that the Sundanese kecap ("word") might be related to Indonesian ucap ("to say")? Or maybe with kecap ("tongue smacking") via semantic difference? The latter seems a little far-fetched, though. Udaradingin (talk) 02:05, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Could the plant be named after the boojum, which was thus named by Godfrey Sykes in the early 20th century? One might see a superficial resemblance between the two plants, especially when "under the influence". And the Boojum is from Baja California, not far from stoner territory. 24.108.0.44 02:20, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
- Boojum tree? Would it have been widely known, even among stoners? Wakuran (talk) 03:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
- Oh yes, they would go rambling in their VW campers or dirt bikes. Don't you remember w:The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers? 24.108.0.44 03:32, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
ghingheri in Treccani.it – Vocabolario Treccani on line, Istituto dell'Enciclopedia Italiana says it is just onomatopoeical.
Pianigiani, Ottorino (1907) “ghinghero”, in Vocabolario etimologico della lingua italiana (in Italian), Rome: Albrighi & Segati has a more convoluted origin.
As far as I understand (it uses terms that aren't very clear to me):
- guindolo (“winder of silk”) => ghindolo in Tuscan dialect
- it corrupted standard Italian agghindare (“to dress up”) into agghingare in Tuscan dialect.
- A ghinghero is like a nice/fine piece of clothing, from agghingare.
- in ghingheri also used in Italian means "in fine clothes"