Template talk:ur-noun-ah-m

choti he

@Ash wki - The choti he, in the final form, isn't necessarily prolonged to ā - as it is in Hindi. Take the example of لگہ (lagah) (ie. لگہ رہ - lagah reh - Stay Put) is pronounced different to لگا (lagā) (ie. لگا دے - lagā de - Put it on). One might even consider transliterating it as 'a', but transliterating it as 'ā' is completely wrong.

Also it's quite important to create a standard of transliteration for Urdu that accurately represents Urdu. You might be able to read Urdu, but the next user along might not (which is most likely the case). They might not know the difference between 'ah' and 'ā'. Transliterations don't necessarily need to fully represent the phonology/pronunciation - Punjabi is an example of that, with its tonal pronunciation.
-Taimoor Ahmed^{(گل بات؟)} 08:03, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@Taimoorahmed11 لگہ رہ lagah rah - I have never seen this spelling. I have always seen لگا رہ lagā rah. It is indeed the same pronunciation as Hindi. Okay, there are examples where the choṭi he is not pronounced 'ā' such as یہ ye, وہ vo, پہ pe, کہ ke/ki but these are anomalies and not nouns.

Yes, there are cases which are nouns and not anomalies such as vajah (وجہ‎ वजह) and jagah (جگہ‎ जगह) where the choṭi he is pronounced both 'ah' (i.e., 'æh' due to the common distortion of pronunciation around the 'h' in Hindustani) and 'ā' (though 'ā' may be considered non-standard in such cases). But this template does not apply in such cases (which follow the usual noun-c-m/f template). This template only applies where the choṭi he is pronounced 'ā' and note that the declension in this template is the same as that for the regular 'ā' (alif) ending, i.e. the noun-ā-m/f template.

If you still think that it should be 'ah' for the purpose of creating a standard transliteration for Urdu, then okay you can go for it but I would suggest that the final choṭi he be kept as an exception since its pronunciation may vary in different contexts.

- Ash wki (talk) 20:00, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ash wki If you don't mind, I'll be reverting it to 'ah', since the transliteration is more accurate. Also in regards to the pronunciation - it is true that native words, that in ہ have varied pronunciation, and it does depend on word-by-word, by generally an unprolonged vowel will be present, whether that be the schwa, or 'ɑ'.

Also I am also trying to sort out the Wiktionary:Urdu transliteration, and definetly need a second opinion. I proposed a modified ALA-LC stanadard to be used on Wiktionary, which is active for Shahmukhi Punjabi (at Module:pa-Arab-translit and Wiktionary:Punjabi transliteration). If you don't mind just telling me your opinion on this, perhaps?
-Taimoor Ahmed^{(گل بات؟)} 08:43, 22 November 2021 (UTC)