Template talk:th-pron

Alternative table format

Orthographic	ชล d͡ʑ+l
Phonemic	ชน d͡ʑ+n	[bound form] ชน-ละ- d͡ʑ+n — l+a+-
Paiboon	chon	chon-lá-
IPA(key) (Bangkok)	/t͡ɕʰon˧/	/t͡ɕʰon˧.la˦˥./

vs the current format at ชล (chon).

Thoughts? Wyang (talk) 06:21, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, yes. I think this entry พล may need the same treatment as well. I have removed the original IPA, thinking that alternative readings belong to derived terms. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

It seems like a lot of good screen space is wasted though. My suggestion:

Orthographic	Phonemic	Paiboon	IPA (key)
ชล d͡ʑ+l
	ชน d͡ʑ+n	chon	/t͡ɕʰon˧/
	[bound form] ชน-ละ- d͡ʑ+n — l+a+-	chon-lá-	/t͡ɕʰon˧.la˦˥./

—suzukaze (t・c) 08:17, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Good thinking. The table seems a little crammed though. How about this:

Orthographic	Phonemic	Paiboon	IPA (key)
ชล d͡ʑ+l	ชน d͡ʑ+n	chon	/t͡ɕʰon˧/
	[bound form] ชน-ละ- d͡ʑ+n — l+a+-	chon-lá-	/t͡ɕʰon˧.la˦˥./

The only downside is with a long word:

Orthographic	Phonemic	Paiboon	IPA (key)
กรุงเทพมหานคร k+r+u+ŋ+e+d+b+m+h+ā+n+g+r	กฺรุง เทบ มะ-หา นะ-คอน k+VL+r+u+ŋ  e+d+ɓ  m+a — h+ā  n+a — g+a/o+n	grung têep má-hǎa ná-kɔɔn	/kruŋ˧ tʰeːp̚˥˩ ma˦˥.haː˩˩˦ na˦˥.kʰɔːn˧/

In which case rotating would be better:

Orthographic	กรุงเทพมหานคร k+r+u+ŋ+e+d+b+m+h+ā+n+g+r
Phonemic	กฺรุง เทบ มะ-หา นะ-คอน k+VL+r+u+ŋ  e+d+ɓ  m+a — h+ā  n+a — g+a/o+n
Paiboon	grung têep má-hǎa ná-kɔɔn
IPA(key) (Bangkok)	/kruŋ˧ tʰeːp̚˥˩ ma˦˥.haː˩˩˦ na˦˥.kʰɔːn˧/

Wyang (talk) 09:32, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

It's a good design by itself, but I feel like it currently doesn't really conform well to the rest of Wiktionary/MediaWiki :/ (generous white space wasn't a thing when Monobook was created)

The huge cell spacing combined with the <small> text feels a bit strange too. It feels disjointed (?)

Orthographic	Phonemic	Paiboon	IPA (key)
ชล d͡ʑ+l	ชน d͡ʑ+n	chon	/t͡ɕʰon˧/
	[bound form] ชน-ละ- d͡ʑ+n — l+a+-	chon-lá-	/t͡ɕʰon˧.la˦˥./

—suzukaze (t・c) 10:15, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Please think about some words that can be read different four pronunciations. It is the maximum case I found. (It may have more when discovered.) --Octahedron80 (talk) 05:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Will they be under the same etymology or different etymologies? Wyang (talk) 06:02, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I think it's different root. Please see สระ for example. More one sound [สฺระ] is not included because it's part of other words (but it has entry in dictionary). --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:06, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Format changed. Wyang (talk) 10:06, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Royal Institute

The Royal Institute Romanization does not seem necessary for this pronunciation template, as it does not represent pronunciation (tones, short/long vowels, etc). Having it here does not help anything. The existing Paiboon and IPA already suffice. --หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 12:33, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

@หมวดซาโต้ I think @Octahedron80 added it because the system is quite widely used. It is less distinguishing than Paiboon and IPA, but readers may find the RTGS transcriptions useful in some circumstances, I think. Wyang (talk) 13:07, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

RI is an official agent, makes official systems. This one is used allover the country; enough reason to include. Some languages already list possible transliterations/transcriptions under pronunciation section, such as Burmese. I still find some ways to override space and do caps on proper noun. --Octahedron80 (talk) 15:14, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Extraordinary pronunciation

Hello! Should we enable the template to indicate the "extraordinarity" of certain pronunciations (that are worth adding because of their popularity - I don't how to describe it correctly, and sorry for that), just like how it indicates the "bound-form" pronunciations? For example:

Word	Orthodox pronunciation	Popular alternative pronunciation	Notes about the alternative pronunciation
หนึ่ง	หนึ่ง (nʉ̀ng)	นึง (nʉng)	colloquial
ฉัน	ฉัน (chǎn)	ชั้น (chán)	colloquial
ไร	ไร (rai)	ไหร่ (rài)	colloquial
เขา	เขา (kǎo)	เค้า (káo)	childish
ไหม	ไหม (mǎi)	มั้ย (mái)	childish
ข้าว	ข้าว (kâao)	เข้า (kâo)	archaic, now dialect

--Miwako Sato (talk) 15:39, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

You should not include them into same entries. I suggest to separate between หนึ่ง/นึง and so on. Yes, alt pronunciation are widely written either. FYI, no "bound form" occur with these words. --Octahedron80 (talk) 16:01, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

@Miwako Sato If these pronunciations can be indicated in the entry one way or another, it would be very helpful. Also: หนังสือ (nǎng-sʉ̌ʉ), pronounced with a high tone on the first syllable. Wyang (talk) 13:07, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

@Wyang Yes, it's gonna be so helpful. That's why I propose that the template should have some functions that allow indicating the characteristics (not sure how to call it) of certain pronunciations, just like how it indicates the bound-form characteristics. Examples are in this photo. --Miwako Sato (talk) 15:08, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

@Miwako Sato Seems good to me, thanks. I will add this function in later today. Wyang (talk) 22:10, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

@Miwako Sato, Octahedron80, Atitarev The qualifier function in pronunciations has been added; the format is respelling:qualifier. Please see ฉัน (chǎn) and ข้าว (kâao) for examples. Wyang (talk) 08:49, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

It's off-topic but red-linked ไหร่ (hrài) should produce 'nil' without the ◌ฺ but ไหฺร่ (rài) should produce "rài". --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:27, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

@Wyang, Octahedron80: Thanks, Frank. Guys, please fix the issue above when you have time as well. Transliterations like "hrài" shouldn't be produced on undefined terms with spellings like ไหร่ (hrài) - initial ห folowed by a consonant without a phinthu. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:56, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Wyang Wow, that's so great! Thank you very much for your efforts!

@Atitarev I think it is just fixed with {{th-l|ไหร่|p=ไหฺร่}}.

--Miwako Sato (talk) 11:01, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Miwako Sato: Thanks, I know about this. There are cases that should fail because there is not enough information and ไหร่ (hrài) without "p=" (undefined, red-linked, without {{th-pron}}) should produce nothing ('nil') rather than "hrài". Yes, great effort, thank you and sorry for the off-topic :( --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:00, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Request Page Protection

This is a highly visible template. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:18, 18 January 2021 (UTC)