Template talk:quote-journal

Chapter?

What do we do when we need a 'chapter' of a journal? Say, a letter to the editor: we want the title of the letter, and of the journal, but we don't want to imply that it's an article, so we need to say 'Letters to the Editor' as well. kwami (talk) 11:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

You could use section= for that purpose. ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 12:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

doi fails

DOI apparently fails when there are angle brackets in doi. See cabbeling. HLHJ (talk) 14:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that's strange. I used {{cite-journal}} which seems to work, since {{quote-journal}} is meant to be used only to set out quotations as part of the dictionary entry proper. But I'll check and see why the angle brackets cause a problem with {{quote-journal}}. Smuconlaw (talk) 16:49, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

OK, I've fixed the problem. Thanks again for highlighting it. Smuconlaw (talk) 16:57, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

dates

Even when this template is passed a date parameter it will highlight the year from the first unnamed parameter.

* {{quote-journal|date=April 2, 2008|Robert Mößgen| ... |Erkenntnis| ...

* {{quote-journal|date=April 2, 2008|Robert Mößgen| ...

* {{quote-journal|2008|date=April 2|Robert Mößgen| ...

Can someone take a look at this? - TheDaveRoss 21:25, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

OK, I'll have a look. Smuconlaw (talk) 21:38, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

The template passes the second unnamed parameter as the year. (The first unnamed parameter is for specifying how the template handles indents.) This is irrespective of whether |date= is used, and appears to be the way in which the template is supposed to work. Smuconlaw (talk) 22:02, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Well this functionality does not match a large portion of its usage, it is very common that the year is the first unnamed parameter. I don't think I have seen the first parameter used to indicate indentation ever. I am trying to clean it up as best I can. - TheDaveRoss 22:19, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Sure, I can change it. Smuconlaw (talk) 14:23, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

OK, I've updated the template. I hope the change doesn't create other issues. Smuconlaw (talk) 15:35, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Not sure if it is the same issue, but now there are emdashes in front of some years. The example on the documentation suffers from this. - TheDaveRoss 17:05, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

No, that was due to a change I made yesterday. I've now fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out. — SMUconlaw (talk) 07:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

"Start_year", "start_month" and "start_date"

Hi, @Kc kennylau, thanks for working on the template. Can you explain what the new parameters |start_year=, |start_month= and |start_date= are meant for? I can't really tell from the wikitext, and the description you added to the documentation isn't very clear to me. Also, I would like to suggest that you rename |start_date= as |start_day=, as date can be misunderstood to mean a full date (day, month and year). In all the {{cite-}} and {{quote-}} templates, we are trying to discourage people from using |year= together with |date= (see "Category:Quotation templates using both date and year"). Smuconlaw (talk) 15:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. See the second quotation in magnum opi for example usage. I apologize for my ineloquent discourse. And for the matter of "start_date" vs "start_day", I simply followed the convention which uses "date" instead of "day". For the matter of discouraging "start_year", I think I may just remove "start_year" and "start_month". --kc_kennylau (talk) 15:13, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

I see. I agree with you that it may not be very common for a journal to have a range of publication dates that starts in one year and ends in another year (e.g., "2015 December 1 – 2016 January 31"). Therefore, maybe you could remove |start_year= and |start_month=, and rename |start_date= to |end_day=. Then you could change the template like this:

{{{date}}}–{{{end_day}}}

This would be enough to allow editors to indicate something like "2016 February 1–7". If editors would like to indicate a range of months, they can just use |month=, like this: "|month=January–March|year=2016". Smuconlaw (talk) 15:30, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

"Please provide the title for this work"

If you use the "quote-journal" template and leave out journal= (or work=) parameter, the expansion contains a message "please provide the title of this work". This is misleading, because the template also contains a title= parameter. To find out how to get rid of that message, I had use Google to search wiktionary for the quote-journal template. (And please keep in mind that new editors may not be familiar with the technical term "template" for what I would think of as a macro. Even now, I sometimes have to dredge through my 70-year-old memory for the right word.

May I suggest "please provide the name of the journal (or work)"?

It would also help if formatting error messages like this provided a link to the page that defines the template's parameters. Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 18:07, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@Bgoldnyxnet, I've modified the error message so that it refers to both book titles and journal names. It's difficult to provide a link to template description pages as the same template backend is used by multiple templates. If you need assistance with quotation templates generally, feel free to leave a message at "Wiktionary:Information desk" or "Wiktionary:Beer parlour". — SMUconlaw (talk) 13:23, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll try to keep track of this.Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 06:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

You can find all the citation and quotation templates at "Category:Citation templates". — SMUconlaw (talk) 07:34, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

URL

I think the "title" (if given) should link to the "URL" value. It looks weird having the URL link just floating in midair. Ƿidsiþ 07:07, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

If I recall, the external URL was indicated in that way so that all the quote templates are consistent. For example, if an external URL is provided for {{quote-book}}, it is better to indicate it as a superscript number because |chapterurl= is used to provide an external link to |chapter= (the equivalent of "title" in {{quote-journal}}) where the work has no page numbers. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:13, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

It seems to me that in that case, too, the URL should be hyperlinked from the "title" value. Ƿidsiþ 08:21, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

This would not be possible when both |chapterurl= and |url= are used, though. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:56, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I see…well it feels like the tail is wagging the dog here, but I guess I don't feel strongly enough to pursue the issue. Ƿidsiþ 11:44, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Automated transliteration

Please add automated transliteration fro non-Roman based languages like most templates do. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:23, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Can you give me an example of one of these templates? I thought {{quote}} was one of them but it doesn't seem to be. — SGconlaw (talk) 14:12, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

URL again

The comma after URL links should be placed before it, as it is, it looks like someone put it in the wrong place. Esszet (talk) 01:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

I think so too, but I recall it’s actually a bit tricky to change because account has to be taken of what happens if certain parts of the citation after the comma are omitted. Perhaps @Benwing2 who is maintaining the citation module can help. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:46, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw I'll revisit this soon, if I don't get to it in a few times, please remind me. Benwing2 (talk) 04:52, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Benwing2: thanks! — SGconlaw (talk) 04:54, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Benwing2: just remembered this. — SGconlaw (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Quote can't apparently take multi paragraph or formatted passage..

Example:- https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=rhino&action=edit&lintid=11345390

which is causing badly formed HTML to be generated. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:31, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Italics in text/passage don't show

I don't know whether the problem in limited to this template or whether the problems exists for other wikiformatting, but wikiformatting for italics doesn't show up. This is unsatisfactory. It may be the result of CSS overpowering wikiformatting, which seems to be a common, though unsatisfactory feature generally. DCDuring (talk) 23:03, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Could you please give an example where it doesn't work? It seems to work for me:

2000, John Doe, “Title”, in Journal:

Here is some text in italics. Here is even more italic text.

70.172.194.25 23:07, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

The place where I had the problem was in a newly placed citation at [[Filovirus]]. The problem persisted for a time (perhaps only in preview?), but now has disappeared for me as well. I was primed to be annoyed at any occurrence of the loss of wikiformatting because there are many templates where such loss occurs, though not as disastrously as an occurrence in {{quote-journal}} or {{quote-meta}} would be. DCDuring (talk) 23:18, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

I wonder whether there was something subtly off about the formatting you had, like the inclusion of spaces or invisible characters between the quotation marks, or using ‘‘curly’’ quotes instead of straight, etc. If it was exactly the same code and you pressed preview twice in a row and got different output, that is a little disconcerting, since these things are supposed to be deterministic. If you come across the problem again, please paste the wikitext here so we can try to get to the bottom of this. 70.172.194.25 23:24, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

issue_plain

Might be useful for non-number issues, like "Special Issue" or "Winter" Jberkel 20:31, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Although it may be a bit of a kludge, it can be shoehorned into the existing issue parameter without causing an error.

1838 November, Hans Christian Anderson, “Deciphering 'Blah, Blah, Blah'”, in The Quarterly Quadrangle, volume XCII, number 3 (Special Issue: The Role of the Internet in Determining Meaning), Utopia, page 608:

Foo bar, […]

—DIV (1.145.103.0 06:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC))

Quotation page versus article pages

The main template page has conflicting definitions of the page(s) parameter.

• Within the Basic usage section: "Page number of the quotation in the article. "
• Within the Parameters section: "The page number or range of page numbers of the article."

(Emphasis added.)

Actually, in my view, both types of information would be useful. Although some journal articles are short (e.g. four pages, or even less — such as for Letters to the Editor), others (especially reviews) can be very long (over one hundred pages).

—DIV (1.145.112.83 09:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC))

I use "Page number of the quotation in the article." --Geographyinitiative (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

If you're writing it out like that, it should be clear enough.

However, it's also prudent to keep in mind that in citations like "Smith et al. (2003), Intl J Phil 30(2): 123", the page number indicated commonly refers to the first page of the article itself. So there could be some misunderstanding if a single page number is given without explication.

—DIV (1.145.112.83 23:21, 15 April 2024 (UTC))

And in any case the template's documentation should be consistent in defining the parameters. —DIV (1.145.103.0 06:22, 9 July 2024 (UTC))

PMID links broken

For some reason, PMID links are broken in entries using |pmid=, see e.g. jejunization, clostridiosis. Einstein2 (talk) 17:30, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

@Einstein2: I also reported this issue 7 days ago at Module talk:quote § PMID links are broken. J3133 (talk) 18:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, I believe (not by me). — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:34, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Date/Year: more information required

In my view a distinction should be drawn between various dates. Submission dates, review dates, acceptance dates, etc. are sometimes known, but very rarely cited. However, there should be a distinction drawn between the date/year of publication, and the date/year of the journal volume/issue. Example:

JOURNAL ARTICLE

Resting heart rate and cardiovascular events: time for a new crusade?

Stéphane Cook & Otto M. Hess

European Heart Journal, Volume 31, Issue 5, March 2010, Pages 517–519.

https://doi.org/10.1093/eurheartj/ehp484

Published: 19 November 2009

The template should allow both dates/years to be given, with different tags. It doesn't seem practical to do that with the template currently. —DIV (1.145.103.0 06:09, 9 July 2024 (UTC))

Note: I believe that the above issue is quite different from the idea of a date range (from start_date to date), which I imagine is more suited to a journal volume or issue imprinted with "April–June 1983", for example, given that such a hypothetical journal issue could have been published in "December 1982". —DIV (1.145.103.0 06:27, 9 July 2024 (UTC))

DIV: what you can do is this: |year='''2009''' February 19 (date published online), |year_published=March 2010. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Placement of genre

Currently, the input of |genre= is displayed after the name of the journal: ⟨“title”, in The New York Times (book review)⟩. I think it would be better placed directly after the title: ⟨“title” (book review), in The New York Times⟩. Einstein2 (talk) 21:41, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Einstein2: it's for indicating the genre of the journal (or, in {{quote-book}}, the book) as a whole, not the article (or chapter). — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:10, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: the documentation says it's for "the literary genre of the article". Einstein2 (talk) 22:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Einstein2: hmmm, I wonder who added that. Basically all the quotation and citation templates run off "Module:quote", and |genre= is intended to apply to the name of the main work—so, the name of a book, journal, or website. That's why it has always been placed after this name. If you want to add some description to the article title or chapter name, you can do so by adding it in brackets which is what I usually do: "Title [advertisement]"; "Title [book review]". — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:19, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw Thank you. I was just wondering it would be worthwhile to change the rendering in quote-journal as I can't really think of any cases where we would want to display the genre of a whole journal, but I understand the need for consistency across quote templates. I have just noticed the example at Template:quote-journal is using the same solution you are mentioning. I might use |title_plain= in the future as I find it a bit strange to have the genre inside the quotation marks. Einstein2 (talk) 22:30, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Einstein2: you could see if @JeffDoozan can add this to his growing wishlist for "Module:quote", but there might be something to be said for not overcomplicating the already fairly intricate module and quotation templates. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:36, 27 August 2024 (UTC)