Talk:transfeminated
Add topicIn preparation for the term failing RFV, preserving the one quote and various mentions/references here: The definition "(obsolete, rare) Changed from a woman into a man" had the one cite:
- 1646, Thomas Browne, “Of Hares”, in Pseudodoxia Epidemica: […], London: […] T[homas] H[arper] for Edward Dod, […], →OCLC, 3rd book, pages 147–148:
- As for the mutation of ſexes, or tranſition into one another, we cannot deny it in Hares, it being obſervable in man: for hereof beſide Empedocles or Tireſias, there are not a few examples; and though very few, or rather none which have emaſculated or turned [into] women, yet very many who from an eſteem or reallity of being women have infallibly proved men: […] But ſurely it much impeacheth this iterated tranſexion of Hares [from female to male back to female, ad infinitum], if that be true which Cardan and other Phyſitians affirm, that Tranſmutation of ſex is only ſo in opinion, and that theſe transfeminated perſons were really men at firſt, although ſucceeding yeares produced the manifeſto or evidence of their virilities; which although intended and formed, was not at firſt excluded, and that the examples hereof have undergone no reall or new tranſexion, but were Androgynally borne, and under ſome kind of Hermaphrodites: […]
References were {{R:Webster 1913|transfeminate}}, {{R:New English Dictionary|transfeminate}}, and
- Thomas Blount, Glossographia, or, A dictionary (1656), "Transfeminate": "to turn from woman to man, or from one sex to another."
- Dr. Kit Heyam (2022 September 13) Before We Were Trans: A New History of Gender, Seal Press, →ISBN:
- Browne […] even coined the adjective 'transfeminated' to refer to a body that has transformed from what we think of as 'female' to what we think of as 'male'.i So the prefix 'trans-' was clearly relevant to thinking about 'gender malleability' long before Hirschfeld leveraged it to refer to the patients he saw at his Institute for Sexual Science. […] i This looks odd to modern eyes, as we're used to using words like 'transfeminine' to describe people who have transitioned to living as female or feminine – but Browne used 'transfeminated' to mean the opposite.
- Gamble, Joseph (2019) “Toward a Trans Philology”, in Journal for Early Modern Cultural Studies, volume 19, number 4, , →ISSN, pages 26–44
(The etymology was {{m|en|trans-||on the other side of}} + {{der|en|la|femina||woman}} + English {{m|en|-ed}}, the pronunciation was {{IPA|en|/tɹænzˈfɛmɪneɪtɪd/|/tɹɑːnzˈfɛmɪneɪtɪd/}}.)
- -sche (discuss) 14:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
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Two senses: "1. (obsolete, rare) Changed from a woman into a man" and "2. (obsolete, rare) Changed from a man into a woman". Although the word is discussed in references a lot, I can find only two uses: Browne spells out that he means sense 1; Meredith (on the citations page) is unclear. - -sche (discuss) 05:32, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- I can't find any other instances of transfeminated as an adjective, but I did find one of transfeminate as a verb:
- 2010, Michael Salvatore, Between Boyfriends, page 27:
- But in defense of all the "Is he or isn't he?" rumors, Laraby is the only person I know who can transfeminate from frat boy to sissy queen in three seconds flat. And transfemination usually occurred on Monday mornings as a tonic to thwart Loretta's hungover harangues.
- I also found multiple references to a work by Joseph Gamble (which is cited as a reference in the entry) that traces the history of the word "transfeminate", so if someone could read that (which is hidden behind a paywall), we might find enough cites for the word transfeminate. BTW, many old dictionaries sidestep the male-to-female or female-to-male distinction by defining the verb as "to change sex". Kiwima (talk) 19:10, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- I noticed that (other dictionaries have one combo/sidesteppy sense) too, but it seems like a incorrect copout to me: with "transition" or "change sex" / "sex change", those terms truly are broad, but here it seems like some uses mean specifically one thing (and would use an opposite term for the other thing), and other uses mean specifically the other thing (and would use an opposite term for the first thing), so combining them feels like combining e.g. the two senses of trans man into a sense like "someone who either transitioned into, or away from, being a man": it would technically cover all of the uses, except that no use means that, they all mean either specifically the one thing or specifically the other thing. - -sche (discuss) 18:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Kiwima The Gamble paper spends much of its time chronicling the passage of the word through dictionaries. It offers no citations other than Browne. This, that and the other (talk) 00:01, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- Well, even if we wanted to combine the senses, which I think would probably be inaccurate, there are only two cites (of the adj, and one of a verb transfeminate). After six months, I'm calling this RFV-failed. - -sche (discuss) 14:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)