Talk:token

"something serving as an expression of something else"

In the noun section, "something serving as an expression of something else" does not appear as sense for "token", but is strangely cited for translations, as if this sense (maybe the main one) had been later removed. I wrote it back as is, adding "sign, symbol" as close synonyms.

--86.205.132.139 11:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

hard-times token: old U.S. token used as coin

a U.S. copper token, issued between 1834 and 1841, that carried an advertising or political message and served as currency during coin shortages
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 15:50, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

RFV discussion: January–February 2021

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token

Rfv-sense: Adjective: "(of people) Included in minimal numbers in order to create an impression or illusion of diversity, especially ethnic or gender diversity."

Not cited at all, let alone as an adjective. The corresponding noun is cited. DCDuring (talk) 02:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

(Copied my comment from Tea Room) Uses such as "He was hired as a token native Pacific Islander" (presently listed as noun) and "He was hired as the company's token black person" (presently listed as adj.) may be debatable as to whether they are adj. or attributive noun, but did we not have that discussion already, and decide that they were "adjectival enough"? Or maybe I'm thinking of "blanket" (which is highly similar). Anyway, the situation now, where the exact same attributive usage is listed as both noun and adj., is not satisfactory. We need to decide on one or the other. Mihia (talk) 11:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

• I remember now, I think I went through this exercise when I added the sense originally, but five of the first five dictionaries I just checked at "OneLook" all have the attributive "token black"-type usage defined or listed as an adjective. On balance, while as I say it could be debatable, I therefore vote that we accept attributive "token black" etc. as adjectival use of "token" (which would render this RFV moot or redundant, since of course such usage is trivial to verify). Mihia (talk) 18:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I have cited the adjective. Two of the cites (1993, 1995) look unambiguously adjectival to me. The other two (2000, 2014) are arguably attributive, but have some aspects that look adjectival to me. Kiwima (talk) 20:28, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Mihia (talk) 22:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I added another adjective cite, showing gradability. DCDuring (talk) 23:51, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 23:24, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

RFD discussion: July 2020–June 2021

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token

RFD-sense "a minor attempt for appearance sake, or to minimally comply with a requirement". Defined as a noun, but actually the second adjective sense, which seems indistinguishable from the first adjective sense. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 08:54, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Senses could perhaps be mixed. From Oxford:

ADJECTIVE

attributive

1 Done for the sake of appearances or as a symbolic gesture.

‘cases like these often bring just token fines from magistrates’

1.1 Denoting a member of a minority group included in an otherwise homogeneous set of people in order to give the appearance of diversity.

‘the patronizing treatment of the token Middle Eastern character’

DonnanZ (talk) 09:18, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

• Move to the Noun section, which presently seems lacking this sense (usexes will need adjusting too). Mihia (talk) 10:45, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
• Keep both the adjective and the noun senses -- Dentonius (my politics | talk) 17:16, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Keep it. This sense is still used and conveys meaning. Token hiring still happens. The NASDAQ, for example, is currently proposing companies be forced to do token hiring on boards. I've also seen the word "tokenism" to refer to this practice. Given that this is still relevant today, a word is needed to convey its meaning. — This unsigned comment was added by 98.21.68.80 (talk) at 12:41, 3 December 2020 (UTC).

(Moved from new section.) J3133 (talk) 13:25, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

{{look}}

• I think that some voters may be misunderstanding this. There are presently TWO adjective definitions:

1. Done as an indication or a pledge; perfunctory, minimal or merely symbolic.
2. (Should we delete⁽⁺⁾ this sense?) a minor attempt for appearance's sake, or to minimally comply with a requirement

Definition #2 is not the definition of an adjective. It is the definition of a noun. Apparently, if definition #2 was converted to a definition of an adjective, it would be not be distinguishable from #1 (albeit #1 could possibly be split?). Additionally, there is apparently no existing noun sense exactly corresponding to #2. Therefore I reiterate my previous comment. Mihia (talk) 23:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

• I have tried to fix up all the relevant definitions. Please make any further changes as you see fit, and then let's close this. Mihia (talk) 20:57, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

• Keep both. Thanks Mihia et al. Facts707 (talk) 01:51, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

That adjective sense is no longer defined as tho it were a noun. Striking as resolved. DAVilla 19:51, 14 June 2021 (UTC)