Talk:teacher's desk in a classroom

RFD discussion: June 2018

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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teacher's desk in a classroom

An RFD tag was added by an anon, but removed out of process by the creator (User:Wyang). The entry is designated as a translation hub, the existence of which was approved by a vote, but such entries are still subject to deletion at RFD. A potential compromise would be to move the entry to teacher's desk, which is at least something that might conceivably be searched for. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 13:25, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Definitely move to teacher's desk. The full entry, while it is very precise, leans towards being redundant. Sure, teachers have desks in offices and such, but such desks don't require the "teacher's" distinction the way a classroom desk does. And if there is any qualm about adding ambiguity by dropping the "in a classroom" part, we could always add a {{n-g}} note or usage note or something to clarify--though I don't think anything like that would be necessary. --SanctMinimalicen (talk) 16:21, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Keep at current entry. It is a concept in many foreign languages, and it is not the same as “teacher’s desk”. Multiple single-word foreign equivalents exist, and there is no reason for deleting this translation-only entry. The translation adder seems to overwrite any revisions subsequent to content being fetched: diff. Wyang (talk) 22:37, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Move per nom; the current title is overly specific. - -sche (discuss) 02:22, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

“Google Images: teacher's desk” gives quite different results from that of this concept. Wyang (talk) 02:51, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

For me, at least, Google Image searches for "teacher's desk", "teacher's desk in a classroom", "teacher's desk in classroom" and "teacher's classroom desk" all show a wide variety of desk types, most of which are the same between the searches, including table-like desks, table-like desks with front panels, and desks with drawers. I imagine the differences are artifacts of my not paging through enough search results. - -sche (discuss) 03:03, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

This is called a lectern, in UK English at least. I can see why there could be a need for its own hub, though. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 08:36, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, when I Google Image search the Chinese translations, the thing that turns up looks like / would probably be termed by an English-speaker a lectern (podium), not a desk. - -sche (discuss) 02:12, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

This is what Chinese 講臺 looks like: [1]. Wyang (talk) 02:24, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Originally, it was {{rfd|en|SOP, 0 translations}} as it is Sum of Parts and as there were no translations. With the addition of translations, the RfD became obsolete and it was ok to remove it the tag.
The new stuff above is an unrelated RfM. -84.161.37.130 03:26, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Move: if there is ambiguity then resolve it within the entry (e.g. split into two senses). Equinox ◑ 11:48, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

• Move to teacher's desk and adjust senses as necessary. bd2412 T 12:04, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Deleted as created in error. Either have it right, or don't have it at all. Wyang (talk) 12:20, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Unstruck. The RFD is still ongoing, and the currently all other commenters support moving. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 13:08, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

It was speedied. I would like to withdraw my contribution. It's a waste of time. Wyang (talk) 13:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

If it is a waste of time, it is only so because you insist on continued wheel-warring. You have now deleted the entry three times, two of which being after I had recreated it with the explanation that the RFD was ongoing. I will not engage you any further by recreating the entry, but it will be recreated if the consensus in this RFD supports the entry's existence (with any pagetitle). —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 13:15, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Antagonistic interactions like the one above are exactly what is causing Wiktionary to be increasingly unenjoyable. Wyang (talk) 13:40, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

What's making this interaction antagonistic, though? You created a page, other editors think it should be moved, but you're taking a "my way or the highway" attitude. - -sche (discuss) 15:57, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

If my contributions are picked on, targeted repeatedly with RfD - I honestly think it was an error for me to have created this. Speedy deletion has a criterion of "created in error" for situations like this. I regret that I had believed the community would find this valuable. Translation-only entries need to describe what the concept is clearly. Teacher's desk and Teacher's desk in a classroom are different in other languages; in Chinese teacher's desk in a classroom is 講臺, 講桌, and teacher's desk is 教師桌. Student's desk in a classroom is 課桌, and student's desk in general is a 學習桌. Wyang (talk) 23:43, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Couldn't this be resolved by saying that 講臺, 講桌, and 教師桌 are translations of different senses of "teacher's desk" as it is used in English? bd2412 T 10:51, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I think so--that's something I'd advocate for, at least. --SanctMinimalicen (talk) 13:03, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Please someone undelete the entry while the RFD discussion continues. Please allow me and other participants of the discussion have a look at what the translations are, what other content of the entry is, and the like. Please let the discussion be opened for a month or so, as usual, unless there is overwhelming consensus earlier. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

There is nothing to 'undelete'. It was speedily deleted because it satisfied the criterion of "Created in error" - the creator regards its creation as an error. The discussion here should have finished at the comment at 12:20, 8 June 2018 (UTC). No more comments here please. If you believe this entry should exist, create it anew yourself. Wyang (talk) 13:54, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Let me remind that contributors do not own entries and content that they contribute, and that the license granted by the contribution into the mainspace is irrevocable. The proper course of action going forward is undeletion, and disposition as per editor consensus. It is also obvious that the entry creator does not consider the entry content erroneous, and therefore, "creation in error" does not properly apply, but rather, -sche's diagnosis of '"my way or the highway" attitude' seems to be the accurate explanation of why the deletion took place. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:03, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps you should create a vote proposing to delete the "created in error" criterion in speedy deletion first. Wyang (talk) 14:07, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

The "created in error" does not apply to this entry (as pointed out above), but it does find some application. It follows that the proposed deletion of the rationale does not make sense; it can at best be used to sarcasically inflame the discussion. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:54, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

As for the WT:THUB rationale: the entry contains Czech katedra, Danish kateder, and Hungarian katedra, which seems to meet WT:THUB, leading to my boldface keep, whether at teacher's desk in a classroom or teacher's desk. (I saw these translations in the entry before short, but it now has been deleted again, by the same deletor. Looks like wheel-warring takes place, against multiple admins.) --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:15, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

"Created in error" doesn't mean "the creator wishes s/he hadn't made it", or else anybody leaving the project in a huff could unilaterally delete everything they had ever done, as revenge. Equinox ◑ 14:59, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

"Created in error" means exactly "the creator wishes s/he hadn't made it", which is why it warrants speedy deletion. "In error": by accident, erroneously. Wyang (talk) 15:12, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

For the unsuspecting reader: the entry was moved to teacher's desk by bd2412, then two times deleted. Then, -sche created teacher's desk from the scratch. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:20, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

It should not have been deleted once it was moved, as this lemma was no longer at issue. bd2412 T 22:53, 15 June 2018 (UTC)